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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Gentoo + KDE 4.11 became slow Reply with quote

I just finished a fresh Gentoo+KDE installation. And I am surprised how slowly system boots.
Anyone noticed KDE 4.11 booting slowness? 18 secs from grub menu to login screen and from login screen to clickable desktop it takes 12 secs...
My old installation boots from grub to clickable desktop in 16 secs.
What is the matter? May it depends on the fact that the KDE 4.11 still is unstable (~amd64)? Or some other reasons?
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franzf
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does that help:
http://blogs.gentoo.org/johu/2013/06/13/disabling-semantic-desktop-at-runtime-2/
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no all these crap installed at all: nepomuk, strigi, akonadi, pim stuffs, virtuoso, soprano...
So no need to disable them.
Very minimal kde installation.
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mv
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
I have no all these crap installed at all: nepomuk, strigi, ...

How? Do you use the overlay? Unless you patched at least the kdelibs ebuild there is no way to avoid installation of nepomuk+strigi with >=4.11.1
Perhaps you did not pay attention that it got installed with your last kde upgrade.
If you missed it then Welcome to the club of those switching to another desktop because of this mess.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
creaker wrote:
I have no all these crap installed at all: nepomuk, strigi, ...

How? Do you use the overlay? Unless you patched at least the kdelibs ebuild there is no way to avoid installation of nepomuk+strigi with >=4.11.1
Perhaps you did not pay attention that it got installed with your last kde upgrade.


I do not use overlay. I did some patches on my local portage tree.
They are (ebuilds):
kdelibs
systemsettings
plasma-workspace
kdebase-runtime-meta
soprano
drqonki
dolphin
(may be I forgot something to list here, not sure...)
So I have no semantic and pim stuffs at all.
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mv
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one shoot in the dark: There is the possibility that some of these patches is broken and e.g. waits for a timeout of a (nonexisting) nepomuk.
However, I cannot really help since I decided to uninstall kde for the mentioned reasons, so I cannot compare your times with an "unpatched" kde-4.11 installation.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the same trick at my old gentoo installation (was patched as well), but my old gentoo boots much more faster then new one. Two times faster.
Once a new system loaded, all works fine, fast and smooth. Apps starts immediately, even faster then in old system. But system booting is slow.

May be it worth to do another one installation with semantic enabled, just to test for boot speed?
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creaker
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I did a new fresh install at the free partition with all these semantic-related crap enabled (just for checking). Now system boots another 3 secs slower.
At least now I know that my patches was made correctly.
May be it is really an unstable branch issue?
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franzf
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please could you differentiate between boot and login. Semantic desktop should not influence boot time but login time, as services start AFTER the user logs in.
Also, enabling USE="semantic-desktop" will also start up the services (nepomuk). This WILL take some time. You need to turn it off in systemsettings (see my first response in this thread).
Your "patches" also seem to be simply modified ebuilds, as I read in the other thread (linked by mv). Or do you really apply "real" patches to the sources?

And last but not least: I never got kde login times shorter than your 12 secs (here it always was more to 20 secs - without semantic desktop! On a quite fast HDD). Also your numbers seem to be not valid or your old system has an ssd: You state that your new system takes longer for the boot WITHOUT login than your old system needed for BOOT+LOGIN! Really, that can't be - as long as the old system started the same services at boot and your user logged into the same DE/WM.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, to be clear, I said about a full boot time, from grub menu to clickable desktop.
Currently it takes 30 secs. It is a very minimal installation, without semantic-desktop stuffs.
As I wrote above, I have another one installation, with semantic-desktop enabled. I made this one just for comparison. And that semantic-enabled system boots 3 secs longer (33 secs), so the patches I have applied to ebuilds is not a reason for slowness.

So, let forget about that semantic-enabled installation.
Currently I am working on semantic-free system. And 30 secs is too much for booting.
At this hardware I had a Gentoo installation that booted in 16secs, and Arch installation that took even 14 secs only for booting.
I do not pretend to boot my Gentoo as fast as Arch does, but I think it should be less than 20 secs.
Right now I installed bootchart and got a boot process image. It located here:
http://imgur.com/QGVs4zi
Can anyone point me out, where is the bottleneck?
Is it udevd I/O problem or is it something else?
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mv
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
Yeah, I did a new fresh install at the free partition with all these semantic-related crap enabled (just for checking). Now system boots another 3 secs slower.

My guess is that if you now disable nepomuk and friends as described on the earlier mentioned webpage and then build again without semantic crap it could be faster, because some things might then perhaps not wait for a timeout since they know that nepomuk et al. will not be started. Of course, this is only a guess.
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mv
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
I do not pretend to boot my Gentoo as fast as Arch does

My experience is that if /bin/sh is a symlink to dash then boot times of openrc and systemd are practically identical. You might want to try this.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
My experience is that if /bin/sh is a symlink to dash then boot times of openrc and systemd are practically identical. You might want to try this.


It does nothing. With sh linked to dash I have the same 29.7 secs.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the semantic-desktop USE flag was now deprecated- is this incorrect?

IIRC, we used to have to have USE="semantic-desktop" enabled for kdelibs, plasma-workspace, and kdepimlibs in /etc/portage/package.use.

Oh yeah- now I remember, it's mentioned in the june13 post on this blog by a Gentoo KDE packager: https://blogs.gentoo.org/johu

Quote:
Today we bumped KDE SC 4.11 beta 1 (4.10.80) in the gentoo kde overlay. The semantic-desktop use flag is dropped in >=kde-base/4.10.80, as you may already noticed or read in dilfridges blog post.


dilfridge discussion about this stuff here: http://dilfridge.blogspot.de/2013/05/news-from-201305-gentoo-kde-team-meeting.html
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought I'd mention my experience. The graphical login massively slows done kde startup, I've no idea why, it's just observation. I start kde with .xinitrc entry and it takes five seconds.
I tried out 4.11.0 and disabled akonadi/nepomuk/strigi and it took 7 seconds. On my netbook (which is slow as hell) with the same configuration it takes about 14 I think.
Then I switched back to 4.10.5. I'm sticking with it until maybe kde5 if wayland proves to be worth switching from x on a desktop.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, just to clarify this, is the correct Gentoo kde policy currently to NOT have a "semantic-desktop" USE flag enabled either globally or on individual kde packages, even if you are running a 13.0/desktop/kde profile? Would running stable or ~Arch,and x86 or amd64 make any difference?
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944 wrote:
So, just to clarify this, is the correct Gentoo kde policy currently to NOT have a "semantic-desktop" USE flag enabled either globally or on individual kde packages, even if you are running a 13.0/desktop/kde profile? Would running stable or ~Arch,and x86 or amd64 make any difference?

Since 4.11 no more semantic-desktop USE flag. If you want to prevent this functionality being installed, you have to edit ebuilds for removing some dependencies from them (nepomuk-core, nepomuk-widgets, virtuoso, kdepimlibs, akonadi). This is an equivalent of the USE="-semantic-desktop".
It is not as difficult as it may seem: I modified 7 ebuilds for installing kde plasma desktop (with some basic programs) that is free of semantic-desktop and pim. The only package I still can not to install is gwenview, because for gwenview semantic-desktop built in source code and can not be removed with ebuild modification.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creaker,
Thanks much for the clarification.

BTW, I found this post by a Gentoo KDE packager describing a way to disable semantic-desktop http://blogs.gentoo.org/johu/2013/06/13/disabling-semantic-desktop-at-runtime-2

then another one for disabling the akonadi PIM framework of KDE http://mschlander.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/disable-akonadi-in-kde-sc-4-7
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Main box- Gigabyte GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ rev.-4.0
Amd FX 8320, 3.5 GHz, 16GB GSkill DDR3 1866mhz
Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD 6570 2GB DDR3
Gentoo ~x86, ~amd64, glibc-2.19-r1, gcc-4.9.1 kernel 3.17.0-gentoo (USE=experimental "native")
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
wrc1944 wrote:
So, just to clarify this, is the correct Gentoo kde policy currently to NOT have a "semantic-desktop" USE flag enabled either globally or on individual kde packages, even if you are running a 13.0/desktop/kde profile? Would running stable or ~Arch,and x86 or amd64 make any difference?

Since 4.11 no more semantic-desktop USE flag. If you want to prevent this functionality being installed, you have to edit ebuilds for removing some dependencies from them (nepomuk-core, nepomuk-widgets, virtuoso, kdepimlibs, akonadi). This is an equivalent of the USE="-semantic-desktop".
It is not as difficult as it may seem: I modified 7 ebuilds for installing kde plasma desktop (with some basic programs) that is free of semantic-desktop and pim. The only package I still can not to install is gwenview, because for gwenview semantic-desktop built in source code and can not be removed with ebuild modification.


Is there any chance of you writing a guide on that?
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944,
there are a lot of explanations on how to disable nepomuk and akonadi. The thing is I do not want to install the program imposed by someone who decided I should have this program.

mrbassie,
I am not sure I have enough experience for writing a guide. There is kde-lean overlay. Right now this overlay is empty, I think they are waiting for kde-4.11 became stable (not ~amd64). I did not wait and installed kde from unstable ~amd64 branch.
If you want I can, at least, pack my portage tree (with edited ebuilds) + portage configuration files + emerge.log and put it somewhere on internet. And you can try with it. Once we'll get kde-4.11 stable I planning to install it once more and may be I will post what exactly I did. Of course, if I can to install it successfully.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm patient enough for the latter option and I would appreciate it. Hands on learning of unixy things is one of the reasons I became interested in Gentoo, I've just got one of those brains where the information goes in better that way rather than reading dry documentation. I just don't have the grounding in computing to connect the dots unless I'm watching it happen. That and tinkering is fun.
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