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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hows this for a curve ball. i moved to gentoo from linux from scratch. LFS is sexy, but its unmaintainable compiling everything by hand. gentoo is sexy, and is maintainable. the package management is always a challenge with any linux distribution, and took a little time to get used to. i am completely happy with gentoo, and NEVER intend to go to arch.
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yoshi314
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i bounce back and forth. mostly because of libreoffice, which is easier to install on arch, especially if you run ~amd64 gentoo with a 6 year old hardware.
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hadrons123
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is always binary package for libreoffice. http://packages.gentoo.org/package/app-office/libreoffice-bin
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hadrons123 wrote:
Ubuntu>Fedora>Arch>freeBSD>Arch>Fedora>Debian>Fedora->Sabayon(4 days)>Gentoo.

Everyone in the every other forum always said how hard it was to build gentoo from sources and one has to do it all weekend.
But didn't realize why gentoo is made this way. But then I had to find out that gentoo with gnome 2 DE with all the apps built took only 4 hours in my Lenovo Y580.
That was surprising.

Is it just me or everyone else, where even the video playing consumes less CPU usage in Gentoo than other distros?

Gentoo really have zillion options for every package which is a bit annoying.

Performance wise its as good or better than Debian.


It's better. I switched from wheezy with every speed tweak under the sun, no DE just a window manager and a panel, to gentoo with kde on the same netbook and gentoo is a little quicker. Haven't had any stability issues either
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hadrons123
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do u measure speed difference ?
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hadrons123
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do u measure speed difference ?
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the second hand on my clock.
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titanmech
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im considering moving away from Arch.

Right now i've only built gentoo in virtualbox to get to grips with the process, as i did with arch years ago.
But depending on how comfortable i feel with the process i may put gentoo on my artigo a100, and desktop pc.

But i am certain i will be keeping arch on my netbook which i use for all my university work.
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Logicien
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want ot say I have test a lot of Linux distributions recently for one reason. I want to see my cellular folders and files tree from a graphic files manager through Bluetooth protocol. It have always work with Debian and probably derivatives.

I have not been able to do so with ArchLinux. It was working with Funtoo, but after some problems came back I decide to remove them. Than I tried Fedora and OpenSuse. It was working. I came back to Gentoo and happilly it have work from the beginning.

The Bluetooth problem with Archlinux is just in graphical mode. All utilities work in command lines, like obexftp. I tried everething I can to make PCManFM, Thunar, Nautilus, Dolphin and Konqueror show my cellular tree with Bluetooth, I hit a wall: 'Connexion to device lost'.

Because Systemd is the default service manager of ArchLinux, Fedora, OpenSuse, Mandriva, Mageia and others, I decide to use only System V and Openrc service managers based distributions, what I prefer. So I am now set to stay with Debian and Gentoo for long.
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Last edited by Logicien on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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titanmech
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@logicien

You know arch supports alternate init systems.

How about replacing systemd with busybox :

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=162606&p=1
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Logicien
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not want to manage a lot of operating systems. For awhile, I was using only Debian. But I want to have a second one. Gentoo differ well from Debian. Busybox could work with ArchLinux. I think it would be simpler and more complete to use Systemd that I like neverless.

I forget, but I keep a minimal ArchLinux installed in a Qemu virtual machine. I can rsync it to a real partition anytime I want.
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Last edited by Logicien on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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hadrons123
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titanmech wrote:
Im considering moving away from Arch.

Right now i've only built gentoo in virtualbox to get to grips with the process, as i did with arch years ago.
But depending on how comfortable i feel with the process i may put gentoo on my artigo a100, and desktop pc.

But i am certain i will be keeping arch on my netbook which i use for all my university work.


IMHO Gentoo stable is easier and trouble free to maintain than arch. Only the installation part with the kernel building will be tricky. Other than that Gentoo is smooth.

Gentoo is so smooth that there isn't any breakage every 1-2 months requiring an user intervention news on the front page of the Arch website kind of stuff.

Any news that you shall need will reach you through portage while you upgrade your package.
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hasufell
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hadrons123 wrote:
titanmech wrote:
Im considering moving away from Arch.

Right now i've only built gentoo in virtualbox to get to grips with the process, as i did with arch years ago.
But depending on how comfortable i feel with the process i may put gentoo on my artigo a100, and desktop pc.

But i am certain i will be keeping arch on my netbook which i use for all my university work.


IMHO Gentoo stable is easier and trouble free to maintain than arch. Only the installation part with the kernel building will be tricky. Other than that Gentoo is smooth.

Gentoo is so smooth that there isn't any breakage every 1-2 months requiring an user intervention news on the front page of the Arch website kind of stuff.

Any news that you shall need will reach you through portage while you upgrade your package.

That's right.

I remember when I was on archlinux and the rule was: never update before you read the news on the website and checked the forums. You easily get into complicated spots for larger updates and there is really zero conflict resolution.

The worst part is: archlinux does not have any real stabilization policy (correct me if I am wrong, that's what I know from my experience and what other users told me recently, so seems nothing has changed there)... they just push things when upstream says it's "stable" (with a few exceptions for crucial system packages maybe). That's pretty thin.
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hadrons123
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some core packages all they need is 2 dev signs and they don't check the package all the time, while they are at it.
Any arch developer can commit and rollout any package in their repos and there is always someone at least once in a month not following the rules or licenses.
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netixen
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went through Arch on my quest to find the distribution that best serves my needs.
I'm stubborn about my workstations and servers using the same distribution, building blocks and core ideas.
There were some Arch decisions that prevent it from sitting well on a server. At least I'm not comfortable using it on a server.
Gentoo on the other hand does well on anything i throw it at and is still a rolling distribution.
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kikkihiiri
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've installed Arch a couple of times on different laptops and in both cases, pacman broke somehow after a couple of package installations, and I was unable to fix it my self or find a solution online. I wasn't very impressed because I've never had any problems with yum, aptitude etc. Portage seems to work pretty good too.
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GSF1200S
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive had much fewer breakages updating on Arch than on Gentoo, but im more competent with Arch.

The key to Arch and Gentoo imo is backups and snapshots. Everytime I upgrade Arch or Gentoo, I have a script which automatically takes a btrfs snapshot of the install first. If something goes terribly wrong, I just boot my "preupgrade" snapshot from Grub2. Then, delete rootfs and copy over preupgrade to become the new rootfs. Or, I can boot preupgrade and chroot into rootfs and try to fix the problem.

Gentoo has circular dependency problems, packages which hit the tree before other packages that need them are unmasked, leading to one having to ignore, unmask or do SOMETHING to get the system up to date. Because with Gentoo (as with Arch but even moreso), it does NOT like to sit- all types of upgrade problems can happen then.

Arch usually has problems from upstream, and they can definitely be showstoppers. Gentoo has a much better system for ensuring that (even in unstable) bugs wont take users systems down; run on stable and Gentoo almost never gives you a problem. If it does, you can always ~amd64 it to get through the bug, then simply go back to stable when the tree moves your problem package from unstable to stable.

Arch has problems with this because of binary dependency issues. Sometimes, you need to file a bug and WAIT until either a dev fixes it or an upstream release fixes it- this again is what snapshots are for. I think they both have their pluses and minuses, and I believe there is a place for both :)

**EDIT** I will also say that Gentoo is VASTLY superior if you are concerned with security. Its not even close. A hardened profile will have a system where all programs are built position-independent-executable, stack canary, full relro, fortify source, etc. While Arch has a grsec kernel setup well by a great guy (in community), Arch devs do NOT focus on building packages with safety in mind. This means youd need to use hardened-cc from the AUR and makepkg, then manually rebuild all packages which contain the processes running on your system. This of course defeats the purpose of Arch's binary nature..
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swathe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm coming back (AGAIN) from Arch. Whilst I never have the breakages on it a lot of people get I find the quality control lacking and the amount of abandoned AUR packages is pretty bad. I've come to the conclusion that the only pros for me with arch are install time and the AUR. I don't hate Arch, I just think Gentoo is better.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split off a tangential discussion "On the comparative merits of package managers.".
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