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Ahenobarbi
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I was surprised about how much empathy I started having for them, especially because how open and candid they were. Then I was reminded that some of them had committed heinous crimes.

But still, they served their time but they were never going to be released. Even if they were given a release it was unlikely you would be found somewhere to live - so you were kept there.

Maybe a big town needs to be made that although it's not the "outside world" but it's not prison

We could call it "Sydney".


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
How so? How could the market do better?

You said you don't want them living near you. You probably don't want them working near you either. My guess is that you would be willing to pay a small "safety" premium on rent or out of your salary if it guaranteed they would be far away. This could be a basis for a market solution that resembles what you were describing: these people would be excluded from living or working in most areas except certain areas explicitly serving them. It could be a sort of "voluntary prison," like you said. Or, like Ahenobarbi said, maybe something completely different. I don't see how experimentation is possible when the state is in charge of "punishing" people by incarcerating them.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ripped off my idea from this guy: Prisons in a free society? (10 minutes)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Prisons in a free society?
Holy crap that guy is a lunatic. Nobody will pledge for a criminal, so the corporate prison will. But guards won't be abusive, because the hotel guest can go to another hotel. And you can be kept securely in your cubicle 18 hours per day, doing your white collar job. But don't fret, you'll eventually be let out on parole because Corporate Prison Co. is more than happy to take on the risk that you won't commit another crime, and they don't really gain from slave labor while you're imprisoned.

I can see it now. A landscape of several large corporate prisons. Verdant Wayfarer, Alcatraz Treatment & Transformation, Transformieren Motivators, and SoftTissueBank. Each competing to treat their guests in the best possible manner, with profit at the low end of priorities. Certainly if one were to treat their unwilling guests poorly, they could just choose to go to a competitor where they'd be certain to find top notch treatment.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to convert Australia back into a penal colony, and surround it with sharks with lasers.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I was surprised about how much empathy I started having for them, especially because how open and candid they were. Then I was reminded that some of them had committed heinous crimes.

But still, they served their time but they were never going to be released. Even if they were given a release it was unlikely you would be found somewhere to live - so you were kept there.

Maybe a big town needs to be made that although it's not the "outside world" but it's not prison

We could call it "Sydney".
lol, as funny and as clever that is it's also tragic if you watch the piece. It's your kind of documentary, constitutional and social pitfalls everywhere you look
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
How so? How could the market do better?

You said you don't want them living near you. You probably don't want them working near you either. My guess is that you would be willing to pay a small "safety" premium on rent or out of your salary if it guaranteed they would be far away. This could be a basis for a market solution that resembles what you were describing: these people would be excluded from living or working in most areas except certain areas explicitly serving them. It could be a sort of "voluntary prison," like you said. Or, like Ahenobarbi said, maybe something completely different. I don't see how experimentation is possible when the state is in charge of "punishing" people by incarcerating them.
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail

Well you already pay more to live in a safe neighborhood than a crime ridden slum. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If you had to choose between neighborhood A and neighborhood B where neighborhood A carefully screens for criminal history and neighborhood B doesn't, then you might choose neighborhood A even if it costs more. It would be a selling point for neighborhood A. If it was a major selling point, then every neighborhood would carefully screen for criminal history. In that case, where would criminals go? Well they would have to go somewhere specifically set up for them: they would have to go to one of the "voluntary prisons" you were talking about.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail

Well you already pay more to live in a safe neighborhood than a crime ridden slum. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If you had to choose between neighborhood A and neighborhood B where neighborhood A carefully screens for criminal history and neighborhood B doesn't, then you might choose neighborhood A even if it costs more. It would be a selling point for neighborhood A. If it was a major selling point, then every neighborhood would carefully screen for criminal history. In that case, where would criminals go? Well they would have to go somewhere specifically set up for them: they would have to go to one of the "voluntary prisons" you were talking about.
so you'd allow poor people to be surrounded by paedophiles? Who has more problems with violence and drugs? The lower or middle classes?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I was surprised about how much empathy I started having for them, especially because how open and candid they were. Then I was reminded that some of them had committed heinous crimes.

But still, they served their time but they were never going to be released. Even if they were given a release it was unlikely you would be found somewhere to live - so you were kept there.

Maybe a big town needs to be made that although it's not the "outside world" but it's not prison

We could call it "Sydney".
lol, as funny and as clever that is it's also tragic if you watch the piece. It's your kind of documentary, constitutional and social pitfalls everywhere you look

Sorry, not going to bother. Can you just give a one-line summary?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail

Well you already pay more to live in a safe neighborhood than a crime ridden slum. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If you had to choose between neighborhood A and neighborhood B where neighborhood A carefully screens for criminal history and neighborhood B doesn't, then you might choose neighborhood A even if it costs more. It would be a selling point for neighborhood A. If it was a major selling point, then every neighborhood would carefully screen for criminal history. In that case, where would criminals go? Well they would have to go somewhere specifically set up for them: they would have to go to one of the "voluntary prisons" you were talking about.
so you'd allow poor people to be surrounded by paedophiles? Who has more problems with violence and drugs? The lower or middle classes?

Silly European, don't you know it's politically incorrect to refer to the lower class as such? Here the Democrats have re-branded them as "middle class", and if they're white lower class Hillary calls them "hard-working Americans". (The Democrats are always using racist code-words like that).

If you're not upper class, then you're "middle class". It's kind of like having a volume knob that goes up to eleven, or having a "category six" hurricane.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I was surprised about how much empathy I started having for them, especially because how open and candid they were. Then I was reminded that some of them had committed heinous crimes.

But still, they served their time but they were never going to be released. Even if they were given a release it was unlikely you would be found somewhere to live - so you were kept there.

Maybe a big town needs to be made that although it's not the "outside world" but it's not prison

We could call it "Sydney".
lol, as funny and as clever that is it's also tragic if you watch the piece. It's your kind of documentary, constitutional and social pitfalls everywhere you look

Sorry, not going to bother. Can you just give a one-line summary?
I can do it in 3 words: Coalinga Mental Hospital
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail

Well you already pay more to live in a safe neighborhood than a crime ridden slum. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If you had to choose between neighborhood A and neighborhood B where neighborhood A carefully screens for criminal history and neighborhood B doesn't, then you might choose neighborhood A even if it costs more. It would be a selling point for neighborhood A. If it was a major selling point, then every neighborhood would carefully screen for criminal history. In that case, where would criminals go? Well they would have to go somewhere specifically set up for them: they would have to go to one of the "voluntary prisons" you were talking about.
so you'd allow poor people to be surrounded by paedophiles? Who has more problems with violence and drugs? The lower or middle classes?
and if they're white lower class Hillary calls them "hard-working Americans".
HWA makes me think of NWA
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"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail

Well you already pay more to live in a safe neighborhood than a crime ridden slum. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If you had to choose between neighborhood A and neighborhood B where neighborhood A carefully screens for criminal history and neighborhood B doesn't, then you might choose neighborhood A even if it costs more. It would be a selling point for neighborhood A. If it was a major selling point, then every neighborhood would carefully screen for criminal history. In that case, where would criminals go? Well they would have to go somewhere specifically set up for them: they would have to go to one of the "voluntary prisons" you were talking about.
so you'd allow poor people to be surrounded by paedophiles? Who has more problems with violence and drugs? The lower or middle classes?


what if the criminal has money and makes a donation to the your neighbourhood?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Why would I pay for extra for a criminal? They have enough time in jail to earn money. And if you watched the video you would know they have every day of their lives... until they die. They don't have the choice to help the community - even from jail

Well you already pay more to live in a safe neighborhood than a crime ridden slum. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. If you had to choose between neighborhood A and neighborhood B where neighborhood A carefully screens for criminal history and neighborhood B doesn't, then you might choose neighborhood A even if it costs more. It would be a selling point for neighborhood A. If it was a major selling point, then every neighborhood would carefully screen for criminal history. In that case, where would criminals go? Well they would have to go somewhere specifically set up for them: they would have to go to one of the "voluntary prisons" you were talking about.
so you'd allow poor people to be surrounded by paedophiles? Who has more problems with violence and drugs? The lower or middle classes?
what if the criminal has money and makes a donation to the your neighbourhood?
I don't know. I just don't know. They could all be productive members of society and contribute but the risk/reward has to be assessed.
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"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I was surprised about how much empathy I started having for them, especially because how open and candid they were. Then I was reminded that some of them had committed heinous crimes.

But still, they served their time but they were never going to be released. Even if they were given a release it was unlikely you would be found somewhere to live - so you were kept there.

Maybe a big town needs to be made that although it's not the "outside world" but it's not prison

We could call it "Sydney".
lol, as funny and as clever that is it's also tragic if you watch the piece. It's your kind of documentary, constitutional and social pitfalls everywhere you look

Sorry, not going to bother. Can you just give a one-line summary?
I can do it in 3 words: Coalinga Mental Hospital

Coalinga: two insane lesbians doing 69?

Sorry, if I felt like watching a movie at the moment I'd fire up netflicks.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually interesting, you should watch it. Especially given how much time you've spent commenting on the subject :P
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too long. I can't be arsed. Just sum it up for me.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best parts cannot be summarized. You've got plenty of time.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want you to summarize it. I want cokehabit to summarize it.

If you can't say it a couple if lines, it's not worth my attention.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I don't want you to summarize it. I want cokehabit to summarize it.

If you can't say it a couple if lines, it's not worth my attention.
this is something special, not your daily rants.

It really is different. It brings in your sense of justice, your sense of fear, your wish that the constitution is all-understanding, your children and your humanity. I've pretty much never watched anything like it
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an hour. If you have the chance, watch it. You will have a better knowledge after it
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"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I don't want you to summarize it. I want cokehabit to summarize it.

If you can't say it a couple if lines, it's not worth my attention.
It is incredible. It is everything that goes against the Constitution in every way - but it is right. But these are humans and you see them as just humans as you and me. But you don't want them living near you.

It seems almost impossible to a firm view on it.

It cost $400 million to build. $200 thousand a year to keep a patient. It needs to be watched
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"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I don't want you to summarize it. I want cokehabit to summarize it.

If you can't say it a couple if lines, it's not worth my attention.
But it is worth your attention because you keep posting about not watching it. You could've watched it by now.

I didn't write that I couldn't summarize it, I wrote that the best parts cannot be summarized.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I can't be arsed. Could cokehabit please just provide a concise summary?
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