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8-Year-Old Kills Caregiver After Playing Grand Theft Auto IV
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In order to dismiss the game's role one has to make the assumption that the child had the capacity to discern that what he did in the game was not acceptable in real life. A thorough investigation of his environment would probably reveal many other instances of unclear behavioral boundaries.

When I was 8 we all knew where the guns and ammo were in our homes BUT we were also proficient in their use and understood what was NOT to be done with them. That was a culture where hunting and fishing were taught by 5.

"Stop, don't touch, leave the area and tell an adult." My children could recite that and understood its meaning before 1st grade. It does however assume access to a responsible adult. Then come other rules before being allowed to handle and use firearms.

Behavioral boundaries, sometimes, some of them actually do benefit us.
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Tenobok
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

Not much effort has been put into such studies and more to the point, not much money. As a result, the kinds of studies necessary to examine such a problem (un-biased, broad-based, longitudinal studies) have not been undertaken.

Nobody stands to make money by proving these games are a problem. The Republicans don't like to meddle with how people raise their own kids. And, the Democrats don't want to go there because they'd rather claim guns are the problem, and it detracts from that simplistic mantra. So nobody has put any money into such studies.

But now, with all the furor the Democrats created over the last school shooting, with the aim of disarming the population, they inadvertently made people really want to solve the violence problem, and the White House was forced to at least make the gesture of poking its nose into this aspect of it. When they did that, they came away with strong recommendations from behavioral scientists that it's likely that such a link does exist and that studies be undertaken.

"There's no evidence" is not a valid objection to making the first serious efforts to see if there is evidence.


There are tons and tons of studies about the subject "does virtual violence cause real-life violence" and still there is no evidence... Your opinion only shows you don't have any understanding about the medium "video games", which makes further discussion pretty much pointless. So, please educate yourself on the subject before you try to discuss it. Thanks! :)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
Trailer park residents make up most of the middle class in the USA. :lol:
just the middle?
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Darth Marley
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
Trailer park residents make up most of the middle class in the USA. :lol:


No, but I understand your confusion, as it is where we keep many of our illegal immigrants from our southern border.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tenobok wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Not much effort has been put into such studies and more to the point, not much money. As a result, the kinds of studies necessary to examine such a problem (un-biased, broad-based, longitudinal studies) have not been undertaken.

Nobody stands to make money by proving these games are a problem. The Republicans don't like to meddle with how people raise their own kids. And, the Democrats don't want to go there because they'd rather claim guns are the problem, and it detracts from that simplistic mantra. So nobody has put any money into such studies.

But now, with all the furor the Democrats created over the last school shooting, with the aim of disarming the population, they inadvertently made people really want to solve the violence problem, and the White House was forced to at least make the gesture of poking its nose into this aspect of it. When they did that, they came away with strong recommendations from behavioral scientists that it's likely that such a link does exist and that studies be undertaken.

"There's no evidence" is not a valid objection to making the first serious efforts to see if there is evidence.


There are tons and tons of studies about the subject "does virtual violence cause real-life violence" and still there is no evidence... Your opinion only shows you don't have any understanding about the medium "video games", which makes further discussion pretty much pointless. So, please educate yourself on the subject before you try to discuss it. Thanks! :)

Seems more like you're sticking your fingers in your ears. Irrational, baseless ad hominem attacks don't lend any credibility to your position, m'kay? If you actually want to make a point, you could refute my statement that such studies have been inadequately funded by citing a credible source showing that billions and billions have been spent on it. Or, you could refute my statement that broad-based, unbiased, longitudinal studies are lacking, by pointing out several of them. Saying "zomg tons and tons of studies have been done" doesn't cut it. Moreover, there were adequate, credible, reliable research, I don't think the Obama Administration, which would prefer that "guns" be seen as the sum total if the problem, could have it's own hand-picked panel of experts come to the conclusion that serious studies of the question need to be undertaken. Furthermore, you have no basis upon which to claim I don't know anything about "video games". I might just have more relevant knowledge than you.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
wildhorse wrote:
Trailer park residents make up most of the middle class in the USA. :lol:
just the middle?

Pffft... Europe is the birthplace of the trailer park, and the UK is the Pikey and chav capital of the Western world. :P
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as the main stream media wants to believe differently, a new study once again proves that video games do not make kids violent.

http://www.webpronews.com/video-games-dont-make-teens-violent-shows-study-2013-08
Quote:
Earlier this week, an 8-year-old in Louisiana shot and killed his grandmother. The incident has sparked new flames in the ongoing U.S. gun control debate, but the familiar scapegoat of violence in video games is also being connected to the murder.

With the release of Grand Theft Auto V only weeks away, discussions of the impact of video games on minors will certainly be in the news for months to come. A study published this year, however, is contradicting common assumptions about violent video games.

The study, published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, shows that violent video games do not cause teens to become aggressive. Even those teens dubbed “vulnerable” in the study (those with symptoms of attention deficit disorder or depression) were not made aggressive. In fact, the study found that violent video games had a “slight calming effect” on vulnerable teens.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
The study, published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, shows that violent video games do not cause teens to become aggressive. Even those teens dubbed “vulnerable” in the study (those with symptoms of attention deficit disorder or depression) were not made aggressive. In fact, the study found that violent video games had a “slight calming effect” on vulnerable teens.

Has there been these kinds of studies done for younger kids?

If someone doesn't have a propensity toward violence, playing violent games won't suddenly turn them into a monster. I have no problem believing that. And if someone does have a propensity toward violence, not having violent games available probably won't change that, either.

But what about the very young? How do games affect them? Has that been looked into? Reality and make-believe blurs much more for them. I'm guessing whether there's parents/elders present and active in their kid's development would have a lot more to do with the outcome, than what games are being played. But I imagine the often violence-glorifying culture all around might be having some effect, moreso when parenting is lacking which is tragically often the case (and I have no idea how this kid was raised to say whether it applies here).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akkara wrote:
Naib wrote:
The study, published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, shows that violent video games do not cause teens to become aggressive. Even those teens dubbed “vulnerable” in the study (those with symptoms of attention deficit disorder or depression) were not made aggressive. In fact, the study found that violent video games had a “slight calming effect” on vulnerable teens.

Has there been these kinds of studies done for younger kids?

If someone doesn't have a propensity toward violence, playing violent games won't suddenly turn them into a monster. I have no problem believing that. And if someone does have a propensity toward violence, not having violent games available probably won't change that, either.

But what about the very young? How do games affect them? Has that been looked into? Reality and make-believe blurs much more for them. I'm guessing whether there's parents/elders present and active in their kid's development would have a lot more to do with the outcome, than what games are being played. But I imagine the often violence-glorifying culture all around might be having some effect, moreso when parenting is lacking which is tragically often the case (and I have no idea how this kid was raised to say whether it applies here).
very good point and probably not since these games have ratings on this.
It would be like taking a group of 8yo and sitting them down to watch the entire SAW series, all the human centipede, chainsaw massacre etc... you just would not do it... so why the hell are they looking at teen rated computer games at children. The parents fucked up simple as that.
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Last edited by Naib on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
As much as the main stream media wants to believe differently, a new study once again proves that video games do not make kids violent.

http://www.webpronews.com/video-games-dont-make-teens-violent-shows-study-2013-08
Quote:
Earlier this week, an 8-year-old in Louisiana shot and killed his grandmother. The incident has sparked new flames in the ongoing U.S. gun control debate, but the familiar scapegoat of violence in video games is also being connected to the murder.

With the release of Grand Theft Auto V only weeks away, discussions of the impact of video games on minors will certainly be in the news for months to come. A study published this year, however, is contradicting common assumptions about violent video games.

The study, published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, shows that violent video games do not cause teens to become aggressive. Even those teens dubbed “vulnerable” in the study (those with symptoms of attention deficit disorder or depression) were not made aggressive. In fact, the study found that violent video games had a “slight calming effect” on vulnerable teens.

Not a broad-based, longitudinal study. Also, you have mis-stated and generalized the hypothesis in an attempt to mispresent the findings.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Naib wrote:
As much as the main stream media wants to believe differently, a new study once again proves that video games do not make kids violent.

http://www.webpronews.com/video-games-dont-make-teens-violent-shows-study-2013-08
Quote:
Earlier this week, an 8-year-old in Louisiana shot and killed his grandmother. The incident has sparked new flames in the ongoing U.S. gun control debate, but the familiar scapegoat of violence in video games is also being connected to the murder.

With the release of Grand Theft Auto V only weeks away, discussions of the impact of video games on minors will certainly be in the news for months to come. A study published this year, however, is contradicting common assumptions about violent video games.

The study, published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, shows that violent video games do not cause teens to become aggressive. Even those teens dubbed “vulnerable” in the study (those with symptoms of attention deficit disorder or depression) were not made aggressive. In fact, the study found that violent video games had a “slight calming effect” on vulnerable teens.

Not a broad-based, longitudinal study. Also, you have mis-stated and generalized the hypothesis in an attempt to misrepresent the findings.
Bite me. Still doesn't change the fact that CallOfDuty has a 17+ rating and GTAV is looking at a pegi 17 as well so moot point when it comes to an 8yo playing it.
Go sit a 8yo down for hours on end watching chainsaw massacre back to back and see what happens. The ask would you actually do that? This is an 8yo having access to > 16yo content WTF do you think is going to happen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Naib wrote:
As much as the main stream media wants to believe differently, a new study once again proves that video games do not make kids violent.

http://www.webpronews.com/video-games-dont-make-teens-violent-shows-study-2013-08
Quote:
Earlier this week, an 8-year-old in Louisiana shot and killed his grandmother. The incident has sparked new flames in the ongoing U.S. gun control debate, but the familiar scapegoat of violence in video games is also being connected to the murder.

With the release of Grand Theft Auto V only weeks away, discussions of the impact of video games on minors will certainly be in the news for months to come. A study published this year, however, is contradicting common assumptions about violent video games.

The study, published in the Journal of Youth and Adolescence, shows that violent video games do not cause teens to become aggressive. Even those teens dubbed “vulnerable” in the study (those with symptoms of attention deficit disorder or depression) were not made aggressive. In fact, the study found that violent video games had a “slight calming effect” on vulnerable teens.

Not a broad-based, longitudinal study. Also, you have mis-stated and generalized the hypothesis in an attempt to misrepresent the findings.
Bite me. Still doesn't change the fact that CallOfDuty has a 17+ rating and GTAV is looking at a pegi 17 as well so moot point when it comes to an 8yo playing it.
Go sit a 8yo down for hours on end watching chainsaw massacre back to back and see what happens. The ask would you actually do that? This is an 8yo having access to > 16yo content WTF do you think is going to happen

You're right that parental supervision is key to this (assuming the games are part of the problem).

However, yet another study that shows with 98% certainty (or whatever) that some age-group of kids don't experience short-term effects of "type foo" after playing games x, y, or z, is NOT HELPFUL. We already know that the vast majority of people have no noticeable, abberant behavioral consequences from these games. But that leaves two percent!

Scientists have habits, like anybody else. We almost by default accept levels of certainty in that range, because it's what we always do. However, in a case like this, that level of certainty is unacceptable. If 100 million people are playing immersive, first-person shooter video games, and there's only a 0.001 probability of it causing violent behavior, that a hundred thousand unnecessarily violent people.

This question didn't come up because 50 million children are behaving badly after playing a game; it came up because one motherfucker ever few years blows away a building full of people (or something similar), and often, that person has been a heavy FPS gamer.

In order to get the level of certainty that's relevant here, you need a broad-based study (one using a huge sample size involving tens of thousands of people).

Furthermore, you need a longitudinal study. We are not merely interested in whether a child is "agitated" or "aggressive" in the minutes or hours after playing such a game for an hour or two. We are interested in what happens after playing the game for an hour or two four days a week for six months, or playing similar games more than six hours a month on average over ten years, or playing a different classes of games more than 20 hours a month on average but with periods of high intensity (20 or more hours per week) during different stages of development. And we're interested in the possible consequences of this immediately, hours afterward, days after ward, weeks afterward, months afterward, years afterward, and even decades afterward.

To determine whether a cause and effect relationship actually exists, many many other variables must also be measured in order to detect covariances (other cause and effect interactions). Medication, numerous parenting variables, numerous home/family environment variables, numerous genetic variables, diet, exercise, substance abuse, geography, school environment, education, other activities, etc., etc, etc, must all be measured, and they must be measured over the years and years of study.

What we don't need is yet more game-loving, immature grad students doing a toy study, or video-game industry-funded pseudo-scientists using half-assed statistical methods. We don't need yet more examination of artificially narrow hypotheses. We don't need yet more studies using inappropriately tiny sample sizes and limited time frame,

We need serious, in-depth, scientific investigation of the problem, and it simply has not yet been done, whether you guys want to admit or not.

The government and charitable foundations sponsor studies of this nature all the time. The Johns Hopkins Nurses Study was probably the first and most famous. Because this would be expensive, and because there are a host of other questions relating to child development (in the educational field, social science, medicine, public policy, etc.), this could be combined into a larger study intended to also examine a number of such issues, in much the same way we put numerous experiments aboard space craft when they're going up (this was the nature of the JHH Nurses study, the data from which has been used to help solve problems not even known to exist when the study was launched, such as the relationship between smoking and breast cancer).

Notably, related to this very same issue (violence in society) we're also interested in the consequences of violence in rap music lyrics, violence in movies and on TV, the consequences of single parenting, the consequences of certain medications, the prevalence of certain violent behaviors among people with various mental health disorders, and the efficacy of various forms of treatment in preventing violent behavior.

Just blurting out "Gyaaah!! Tere is noes Evmidents!" is not helpful to anybody or anything. I am not arguing that video games should be "banned" or even that they are part of the problem. I am hypothesizing that certain kinds of video games are part of the problem, and arguing that this merits serious investigation as part of an effort to reduce levels of violence within our society.

I also believe ineffective firearms control is part of the problem (and that the measures being proposed by Democrats are just MORE ineffective control which can't seriously even be intended to address the problem of violence but are more likely aimed at enabling increased authoritarianism by eliminating the possibility of serious resistance). We can have effective control by requiring that all firearms be registered on a periodic basis with local authorities, in a process that is collectively in the hands of the states (and specifically NOT in the hands of the Federal Government). What we're doing now, trying to control purchase transactions, isn't working at all.

I also believe inner-city gang culture is part of the problem, particularly for young African-American men. There are numerous angles to address this problem, including creating more real opportunity for them, eliminating the celebration of gang violence that is going on in our entertainment industry, and expanding programs like Big Brothers / Big Sisters, YMCA/YWCA, after-chool programs, Urban Youth Impact and similar programs.

I also believe our entertainment industry is part of the problem. I believe we're celebrating violent crime, portraying it as something admirable, and teaching people that it is a reasonable lifestyle alternative. I believe we also need to make it easier for parents to effectively control what their children are exposed to (because they're not doing it now).

I realize every one of you guys who are still basically children (i.e., 29 or so and below) will instinctively object to all of this, and you can all blow me, because you're all wrong. :P
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats to admit, obviously young kids are going to re-enact (or be mentally scared). I am just pointing out that blaming video games in this instance and others like is it a red herring since the bigger problem is the carer. NOW 16yo's persistently exposed to 16yo rating games... now that different and it might show something... So raise the age limit if something was done.

The closest my 7yo gets to computer games is MarioKart or MarioGalaxy or Lego Starwars/Potter/LotR with me to play together (not to fob off care). The closest my boy gets some some of my games is a quick look at a zombie in L4D2 before killing the game before I have to kill it or it kills me.

A long term study would be good... or parents take bloody responsibility for their kids. Comes back to what I said, would they stick their kids constantly infront of horror films... if no then why would they do it with computer games. Equally you watch a film for what? 90min maybe once or twice a week... 4hours a day infront of the same content isn't going to be healthy (unless it is porn)
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