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djdunn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just an FYI we cant be expected to see the longterm releases around forever either, with current projections https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html putting the EOL of 2.6 in mid 2014.
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Aonoa
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my desktop system, I stay pretty much up to date with the gentoo-sources line. At the moment, 3.10.5-r1. There are no issues for me so far following this pace of updating my kernel. I like to have bread fresh from the bakery, warm and fragrant, at the peak of it's taste. Oh, right, we were talking kernels.. Yes, I like them fresh. :lol:
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Drasica
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My preferences depend on the hardware. For a laptop I like to be bleeding edge since there's some big leaps in progress for the drivers in even just year. For a more traditional desktop box with no especially fancy bells and whistles, I'll usually just download the latest gentoo sources and build that, keeping it until I do a system re-install.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm really getting fed up with the recent kernels (3.5 - 3.10) and I'm not the only one, my colleagues using Gentoo complained about the recent kernels too.

One kernel gives you terrible wi-fi performance, the next fixes that a bit, but makes kworker take up 50% CPU and generate a lot of wakeups when idle, the next kernel fixes that a bit, but ALSA devices cannot be muted anymore...

It feels like they are releasing kernels just for the sake of releasing and incrementing numbers, the changelog for 3.10.9 contained just two commits.

Btw, does anyone know why the gentoo-sources team stabilized 3.10.7 instead of 3.10.9 when upstream didn't even declare them as stable? Not hatin' or anything, just couldn't find in the stabilization policy for gentoo-sources how they pick which kernel to stabilize.

So I'm seriously thinking about adopting a long-term stable kernel strategy.

I'm just not really sure which to choose. According to kernel.org, the latest long-term kernel is 3.4.*, but when I look at gentoo-sources, that line of kernels is masked as unstable, should that trouble me? Or do you have a favorite long-term kernel line ? What about the backports, are they any useful and stable? I guess I'm looking for something in gentoo-sources.
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TheLexx
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
Well I'm really getting fed up with the recent kernels (3.5 - 3.10) and I'm not the only one, my colleagues using Gentoo complained about the recent kernels too.
<snip>
I'm just not really sure which to choose. According to kernel.org, the latest long-term kernel is 3.4.*, but when I look at gentoo-sources, that line of kernels is masked as unstable, should that trouble me? Or do you have a favorite long-term kernel line ? What about the backports, are they any useful and stable? I guess I'm looking for something in gentoo-sources.



I found the 3.4 series to have everything I need, It should be known that I'm running on old hardware. I haven't messed with backports, because Greg Kroah-Hartman has applied all that I have needed. I suppose you could apply one that he did not if you need it.

I do not use the Gentoo systems at all when it comes to my kernel. I just downloaded the tarball from kernel.org and extract inside of /usr/src (it extracts to its own dir linux-3.4.60). then I made a symbolic link from /usr/src/linux to the new dir (you may have to kill the current link).

To help with the .config file I uses settings from http://kernel-seeds.org . I the first setting I uses did generate lots of modules I did not use. I then install the modules manually. I copy the new kernel under a different name so that both are in the system I adjust grub to boot the new one. I will usually leave the old kernel on the hard drive as a fall back untell I'm satisfied the new one is trouble free.

I also use the "make localmodconfig" from the /usr/src/linux directory to creat a new leaner ".config" file for the next compile. If you use an old ".config" on a new kernel source be sure to use "make oldconfig" to refresh it, even when changing a minor number (it will usually not make a difference for minor numbers, but it is a just-in-case).

When I use the emerge it will continue to pull in the newest gentoo kernel, but emerge will not will not compile it. I do check from time to time to make sure the link keeps pointing to the LTS kernel.

I'm thinking about creating some sort of portage overlay that will read the kernel.org RSS feed and retrieve the latest LTS kernel from the user chosen branch. (3.0, 3.2, 3.4 or 3.10)
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smartass
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheLexx wrote:

I do not use the Gentoo systems at all when it comes to my kernel.

Could you please share your reasons for that decision? Was the update of LTS kernels in portage tree too late?

I was thinking about something like this in /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords:
Code:

#keep only LTS kernel line
=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.*
<sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 -amd64
>sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 -amd64


This should automatically track the LTS line, provided Gentoo devs will add new releases in that line.

However, portage does not like the =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.* atom, most likely because =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 does not exist. Any ideas how to specify that range the proper way?
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kurly
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:

I was thinking about something like this in /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords:
Code:

#keep only LTS kernel line
=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.*
<sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 -amd64
>sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 -amd64


This should automatically track the LTS line, provided Gentoo devs will add new releases in that line.

However, portage does not like the =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.* atom, most likely because =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 does not exist. Any ideas how to specify that range the proper way?

Portage doesn't like that atom because =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4. (note the illegal trailing dot) does not exist. I believe that * means everything -- including nothing.

The way I handle this situation is to add this to /etc/portage/package.mask:
Code:

# Use package.unmask to unmask the specific 3.N.y that you want
sys-kernel/gentoo-sources

And this to /etc/portage/package.unmask:
Code:

=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4*

Do note that this solution will break upon the release of 3.40.0, which I project should not happen for some time. I also suspect that 3.4 will no longer be an LTS kernel by that time. Also, the machine using this scheme is ~amd64, so you may also need a line in your /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords.
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.* is valid....

http://linux.about.com/od/lts_guide/a/gdelts66t00.htm

mask greater than, or equal to
>=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.31

to emerge gentoo-sources 3.4.30 & keep them at that, until further notice.

""Odd number" kernel." has gone out the window since GIT came along. http://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8
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kurly
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
.* is valid....

http://linux.about.com/od/lts_guide/a/gdelts66t00.htm
Sure, it's valid syntax, but it's still not a valid atom because kernel "3.4." doesn't exist.

666threesixes666 wrote:
""Odd number" kernel." has gone out the window since GIT came along. http://youtu.be/4XpnKHJAok8
I'm not sure anyone in this thread thought otherwise.
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djdunn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
Well I'm really getting fed up with the recent kernels (3.5 - 3.10) and I'm not the only one, my colleagues using Gentoo complained about the recent kernels too.

One kernel gives you terrible wi-fi performance, the next fixes that a bit, but makes kworker take up 50% CPU and generate a lot of wakeups when idle, the next kernel fixes that a bit, but ALSA devices cannot be muted anymore...

It feels like they are releasing kernels just for the sake of releasing and incrementing numbers, the changelog for 3.10.9 contained just two commits.

Btw, does anyone know why the gentoo-sources team stabilized 3.10.7 instead of 3.10.9 when upstream didn't even declare them as stable? Not hatin' or anything, just couldn't find in the stabilization policy for gentoo-sources how they pick which kernel to stabilize.

So I'm seriously thinking about adopting a long-term stable kernel strategy.

I'm just not really sure which to choose. According to kernel.org, the latest long-term kernel is 3.4.*, but when I look at gentoo-sources, that line of kernels is masked as unstable, should that trouble me? Or do you have a favorite long-term kernel line ? What about the backports, are they any useful and stable? I guess I'm looking for something in gentoo-sources.


upstream does mark 3.10.* as stable the day they are released
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djdunn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
TheLexx wrote:

I do not use the Gentoo systems at all when it comes to my kernel.

Could you please share your reasons for that decision? Was the update of LTS kernels in portage tree too late?

I was thinking about something like this in /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords:
Code:

#keep only LTS kernel line
=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.*
<sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 -amd64
>sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 -amd64


This should automatically track the LTS line, provided Gentoo devs will add new releases in that line.

However, portage does not like the =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4.* atom, most likely because =sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4 does not exist. Any ideas how to specify that range the proper way?


check out vanilla sources, they have 4 slots there are 3.0.*, 3.2.* 3.4.* and 3.10.* all the long term releases including the current stable 3.10 line except the 2.6 lines.

so
sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-3.4.* should work
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still shocked that a large update patch in 3.8.0 broke bluetooth-rfcomm so badly it causes the machine to go down...Bug reports ever since 3.8, several in 3.9, duplicated in 3.10... and won't be fixed until likely 3.12 (and won't be backported into 3.10)...

NotQuiteStable...
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TheLexx
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
TheLexx wrote:

I do not use the Gentoo systems at all when it comes to my kernel.

Could you please share your reasons for that decision? Was the update of LTS kernels in portage tree too late?


I guess I am out-of-touch-with the developments the portage vanilla sources. I did not know about , "there are 4 slots there are 3.0.*, 3.2.* 3.4.* and 3.10.*" .

I went off of portage for kernels back around 2008 and have not investigated the portage kernel tree sence. Now that I know about that I might switch over to it. It might keep emerge from downloading a kernel that I will not use saving bandwidth and HD space. If I had known about it I would not have said anything about the overlay that utilized the kernel.org RSS feed.
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smartass
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@djdunn, unfortunately
Code:
sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-3.4.*
is not a valid atom. The only simple way I figured out to unmask 3.4.* is to mask anything higher
Code:
>=sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-3.5 -amd64
and unmask everything less or equal
Code:
<sys-kernel/vanilla-sources-3.5 ~amd64
which should make portage take the greatest unmasked version -> 3.4.* I use 3.5 as the fringe for portage to treat the ranges right.

Or is there a simpler (yet supported) way?

So far it seems I'll stick with 3.4.*, because kernel after 3.5.* seems to me a bit too unstable and 3.10.* isn't IMHO much of an improvement. What's your favorite LTS branch at the moment people? ;)

Also do you use vanilla-sources for LTS or gentoo-sources? I'd like to remain using gentoo-sources, but I fear that the devs won't add the LTS updates to portage so often, because they may not have time for all of that. Do you have experience with gentoo-sources LTS branches, how much they lag behind?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:

Also do you use vanilla-sources for LTS or gentoo-sources? I'd like to remain using gentoo-sources, but I fear that the devs won't add the LTS updates to portage so often, because they may not have time for all of that. Do you have experience with gentoo-sources LTS branches, how much they lag behind?


I am on 3.4.* gentoo branch on most of my computers, and for my taste they update it too often :) Namely, I would have preferred some of LTS kernel had stable designation, as it used to be in 2.6 year, so that you would not get ~amd64 updates every week or so. I cannot update kernels on life machines that often anyway
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kurly
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
Or is there a simpler (yet supported) way?
Did you not like my idea? ;)

smartass wrote:
So far it seems I'll stick with 3.4.*, because kernel after 3.5.* seems to me a bit too unstable and 3.10.* isn't IMHO much of an improvement. What's your favorite LTS branch at the moment people? ;)
I have one machine tracking 3.4 latest as described in my earlier post in this thread. I have another machine tracking x86 stable, which is currently 3.10.7. My laptop uses git-sources because it relies on some 3.11-specific features.

smartass wrote:
Also do you use vanilla-sources for LTS or gentoo-sources? I'd like to remain using gentoo-sources, but I fear that the devs won't add the LTS updates to portage so often, because they may not have time for all of that. Do you have experience with gentoo-sources LTS branches, how much they lag behind?
My machine that uses 3.4 and the one that uses stable x86 both use gentoo-sources. The 3.4 generally lags by less than 48 hours, often less than 24 hours.
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smartass
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@kurly, your approach (which I would prefer as it is a bit cleaner) could work too, but
Quote:
=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4*
is not a valid atom even in package.unmask, right?

I'm happy to hear that gentoo-sources LTS branches get often updated, I just wasn't sure because I don't see 3.4.60 yet.
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kurly
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
@kurly, your approach (which I would prefer as it is a bit cleaner) could work too, but
Quote:
=sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-3.4*
is not a valid atom even in package.unmask, right?
Note that I wrote "4*", not "4.*" like you had, so it is indeed valid. I copy/pasted the lines from my actual working configuration.
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smartass
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@kurly, sorry, misread the dot. Thank you for pointing it out :)
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