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Bigun
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gun Arrested
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Gun Arrested

Yeah neighbourhood watch. I wouldn't want my neighbours watching my house thanks :P
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BonezTheGoon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Rules must state how big a gun have to be to qualify as concealed carry. I think.


I can't speak for "everywhere" obviously but here in the state of New Mexico there is no such rule. You are allowed to conceal any gun, no matter how big it is physically or what the caliber.

Obviously at some point a weapon becomes too big to conceal, but there are no laws/rules about it here.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:

I don't see it that way. The guy didn't have or need a gun, therefore a gun ban wouldn't have helped..... in other words... "my point".


So, you have a point against a non point. i don't recall anyone claiming that a gun ban will stop all crime.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:

I don't see it that way. The guy didn't have or need a gun, therefore a gun ban wouldn't have helped..... in other words... "my point".


So, you have a point against a non point. i don't recall anyone claiming that a gun ban will stop all crime.


Good, please stop acting like it will.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:

I don't see it that way. The guy didn't have or need a gun, therefore a gun ban wouldn't have helped..... in other words... "my point".


So, you have a point against a non point. i don't recall anyone claiming that a gun ban will stop all crime.


Good, please stop acting like it will.


I don't. Call me crazy though, a gun ban, along with an effort to actually reduce guns production and distribution, should have an effect on gun violence though, no? Other forms of violence and weapons use may go up, but gun violence probably won't. Given that the US is the largest producers of these weapons, your country can actually have a good effect.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:

I don't see it that way. The guy didn't have or need a gun, therefore a gun ban wouldn't have helped..... in other words... "my point".


So, you have a point against a non point. i don't recall anyone claiming that a gun ban will stop all crime.


Good, please stop acting like it will.


I don't. Call me crazy though, a gun ban, along with an effort to actually reduce guns production and distribution, should have an effect on gun violence though, no? Other forms of violence and weapons use may go up, but gun violence probably won't. Given that the US is the largest producers of these weapons, your country can actually have a good effect.


I don't react to buzz words like "gun violence". If someone wants someone dead, the means by which the act is accomplished is meaningless. I'm happy with the fact my house is well armed and equipped to handled an intruder. My arms are well kept, maintained, and everyone in the house capable of learning is taught how to safely and effectively use them.

On the other-side, the average thug has some 5th hand 38. caliber pea shooter that has never seen a drop of gun oil since it left the factory, and is more likely to blow up his hand than hit his intended target. Not to mention, I'm actually quite happy that Hollywood has pushed this "side-holding" aim technique, even happier it took hold in thug culture. I've never felt safer.

Take away guns, and I'm the one who loses, not them.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:
juniper wrote:
Bigun wrote:

I don't see it that way. The guy didn't have or need a gun, therefore a gun ban wouldn't have helped..... in other words... "my point".


So, you have a point against a non point. i don't recall anyone claiming that a gun ban will stop all crime.


Good, please stop acting like it will.


I don't. Call me crazy though, a gun ban, along with an effort to actually reduce guns production and distribution, should have an effect on gun violence though, no? Other forms of violence and weapons use may go up, but gun violence probably won't. Given that the US is the largest producers of these weapons, your country can actually have a good effect.


I don't react to buzz words like "gun violence". If someone wants someone dead, the means by which the act is accomplished is meaningless. I'm happy with the fact my house is well armed and equipped to handled an intruder. My arms are well kept, maintained, and everyone in the house capable of learning is taught how to safely and effectively use them.

On the other-side, the average thug has some 5th hand 38. caliber pea shooter that has never seen a drop of gun oil since it left the factory, and is more likely to blow up his hand than hit his intended target. Not to mention, I'm actually quite happy that Hollywood has pushed this "side-holding" aim technique, even happier it took hold in thug culture. I've never felt safer.

Take away guns, and I'm the one who loses, not them.


But, just as the army, thugs and homeowners have stated through the market, the best offensive and defensive weapon is a gun. I am not suggesting taking away guns from only you, but from everyone.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The U.S. population is already saturated with guns. You will never change that. It's a fucked situation, and I'm sorry, but the only thing you'll do is remove people's ability to defend themselves.

EDIT: Forcefully attempting to confiscate my weaponry is a very bad idea.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
But, just as the army, thugs and homeowners have stated through the market, the best offensive and defensive weapon is a gun. I am not suggesting taking away guns from only you, but from everyone.


That last part.... not happening.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see it like this: The Constitution grants us multiple rights. Some people seem to think that some matter while others don't.

For example, I don't give a damn about exercising the First Amendment. I never go out and protest, and by and large, I think everyone who does needs to just shut the fuck up for a change. The difference between you (juniper) and me is that I don't advocate prohibiting your right to free speech.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I am not suggesting taking away _____ from only you, but from everyone.
I cannot compose the words to convey how frightening to me that mindset is.
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PaulBredbury
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
words to convey how frightening

Might I suggest vagina dentata?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, that right there is the problem with free access to all.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
juniper wrote:
I am not suggesting taking away _____ from only you, but from everyone.
I cannot compose the words to convey how frightening to me that mindset is.


ok
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wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I see it like this: The Constitution grants us multiple rights. Some people seem to think that some matter while others don't.

For example, I don't give a damn about exercising the First Amendment. I never go out and protest, and by and large, I think everyone who does needs to just shut the fuck up for a change. The difference between you (juniper) and me is that I don't advocate prohibiting your right to free speech.


I have a huge chest and can yell at a serious volume. it (nor anyone else's free speech) hasn't killed anyone. that's the difference.
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wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I see it like this: The Constitution grants us multiple rights. Some people seem to think that some matter while others don't.

For example, I don't give a damn about exercising the First Amendment. I never go out and protest, and by and large, I think everyone who does needs to just shut the fuck up for a change. The difference between you (juniper) and me is that I don't advocate prohibiting your right to free speech.


I have a huge chest and can yell at a serious volume. it (nor anyone else's free speech) hasn't killed anyone. that's the difference.


My firearms haven't killed anyone either. So there is no difference.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
My firearms haven't killed anyone either. So there is no difference.

He doesn't see it like that. To him, there is no difference between the guns you and I own and the gun owned by the gangster down the street. In reality, there isn't much difference. The difference is in who we are vs. who the gangster is. This is, of course, entirely irrelevant.

EDIT @juniper: You'd be much better off prosecuting irresponsible gun owners who allow their firearms to be stolen. BoneKracker came up with a counter to this, but I can't remember what it was.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I see it like this: The Constitution grants us multiple rights. Some people seem to think that some matter while others don't.

For example, I don't give a damn about exercising the First Amendment. I never go out and protest, and by and large, I think everyone who does needs to just shut the fuck up for a change. The difference between you (juniper) and me is that I don't advocate prohibiting your right to free speech.


I have a huge chest and can yell at a serious volume. it (nor anyone else's free speech) hasn't killed anyone. that's the difference.


My firearms haven't killed anyone either. So there is no difference.


15,000 of them did last year.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Muso wrote:
My firearms haven't killed anyone either. So there is no difference.

He doesn't see it like that. To him, there is no difference between the guns you and I own and the gun owned by the gangster down the street. In reality, there isn't much difference. The difference is in who we are vs. who the gangster is. This is, of course, entirely irrelevant.

EDIT @juniper: You'd be much better off prosecuting irresponsible gun owners who allow their firearms to be stolen. BoneKracker came up with a counter to this, but I can't remember what it was.


There is of course a difference between responsible gun owner and gangsters. I know that. What turns into a problem is flooding a system so thoroughly with guns it becomes impossible to keep guns out of the hands of the bad people.

I sympathize with hunters (even though I am a vegetarian. That's how cool I am) and home owners. So, how about rifles and such are legal and everything else is not.
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Muso
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I see it like this: The Constitution grants us multiple rights. Some people seem to think that some matter while others don't.

For example, I don't give a damn about exercising the First Amendment. I never go out and protest, and by and large, I think everyone who does needs to just shut the fuck up for a change. The difference between you (juniper) and me is that I don't advocate prohibiting your right to free speech.


I have a huge chest and can yell at a serious volume. it (nor anyone else's free speech) hasn't killed anyone. that's the difference.


My firearms haven't killed anyone either. So there is no difference.


15,000 of them did last year.


No, I do not own 15,000 firearms. I think you mean that out of all of the homicides last year (assuming your number is accurate), 15,000 of those used a different tool then the rest.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I see it like this: The Constitution grants us multiple rights. Some people seem to think that some matter while others don't.

For example, I don't give a damn about exercising the First Amendment. I never go out and protest, and by and large, I think everyone who does needs to just shut the fuck up for a change. The difference between you (juniper) and me is that I don't advocate prohibiting your right to free speech.


I have a huge chest and can yell at a serious volume. it (nor anyone else's free speech) hasn't killed anyone. that's the difference.


My firearms haven't killed anyone either. So there is no difference.


15,000 of them did last year.


No, I do not own 15,000 firearms. I think you mean that out of all of the homicides last year (assuming your number is accurate), 15,000 of those used a different tool then the rest.


15000 deaths IIRC. about 12000 murders, 2/3 of which are by firearms.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I sympathize with hunters (even though I am a vegetarian. That's how cool I am) and home owners. So, how about rifles and such are legal and everything else is not.

Okay, so in a way, this makes sense. The vast, huge majority of homicides are committed with pistols. A shotgun is probably your best choice for home defense and the AR-15 platform is suitable for hunting, but can also be used indoors depending on how it's configured. Neither are concealable.

I still can't accept the idea, though. Too many homicides have been stopped by individuals with concealed weapons permits. Perhaps authorizing pistol sales to those individuals only would be acceptable. Note that these weapons have to be regularly accounted for. The CCW programs also include firearms training and a very stringent background check.
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