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big dave
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Correlation is not causation. One tool might be preferable to another for something, but no tool creates the reason to use it.

60% of firearm-related homicides in the U.S. are suicides, but firearms do not make people kill themselves or each other; all they are doing is making them less painful.

i don't know about this... the cracked article mentions a study that found that the number one method of suicide was previously a specific type of oven... when technological advances phased out that oven, suicide rates plummeted. assuming that's actually true, we could follow the liberal example and just make it illegal to commit suicide, and punish attempted suicide with a minimum mandatory sentence of 20 years in prison. no one would even attempt suicide then right?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:
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juniper
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Correlation is not causation.


for the third time, I agree.

Quote:

One tool might be preferable to another for something, but no tool creates the reason to use it.


Umm yeah. Here's what would happen. If you ban hammers, it's going to be a lot harder to put nails into wood. People will use other things, but likely there will be less nails in wood because you just removed the best tool for the job.

Quote:

60% of firearm-related homicides in the U.S. are suicides, but firearms do not make people kill themselves or each other; all they are doing is making them less painful.


Yup. A big problem. The one thing about firearms and suicide is 1) you are very likely to succeed and 2) it's painless. 2 is good, 1 is not. I obviously don't think that we should criminalize suicide, but prevention is good.

Quote:

It might be a reasonable hypothesis that fewer attempts to kill one's self or somebody else would succeed if there were no firearms, but I say the difference is a small price for a society to pay for not being turned into a helpless herd of livestock by the state. Furthermore, social, economic, and cultural factors and -- not laws -- are what determine both how many such attempts there will be and the extent to which firearms are available.


you keep saying that you will become "helpless". That may be true, but criminals will become offenseless. if you don't think so, that's really what happens in gun controlled places. Criminals here use knives and the use it a lot. But knives are less lethal.

Quote:

Laws that effectively prevent criminals and the insane from having firearms are good. Laws that prevent law-abiding and constructive people from having firearms are bad. And, the goodness or badness is a function of the number of people impacted. We need to stop trying to make guns "non-available" and start trying to get them out of unregulated circulation, and we need to do so in a way that is as decentralized as feasible.


that theory is good, but how will you implement it in practice? The further problem is that because of the number of guns in the system, you have a huge black market (where they don't check for insanity) and guns are cheap. Because of the laws, guns in Canada are really expensive. There is a big cross border gun trade simply because you can ship guns from the US to Canada and mark up the price by 5x. My guess is that it is worse here.

The problem is that democrats have no balls, and republicans will block anything that smells like gun control. The NRA nutjobs are right; AR-15 type weapons are rarely used, so banning them won't help. They don't make the next logical statement. Hand guns are the most used weapon, so banning them might help. People can still have whatever rifle/shotgun they want for legitimate home protection/govt invasion (I know you guys are worried about that), but why not follow the NRA logic and go after hand guns?
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I think i have decided to go to a shooting range. I want to see what all the rage is about.


Whatever you do, be sure to put your thumb behind the slide when you fire a shot.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
juniper wrote:
I think i have decided to go to a shooting range. I want to see what all the rage is about.


Whatever you do, be sure to put your thumb behind the slide when you fire a shot.

No, don't do that. Keep your thumbs to the side of the slide with one overlapping the other. :roll:
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Bigun wrote:
juniper wrote:
I think i have decided to go to a shooting range. I want to see what all the rage is about.


Whatever you do, be sure to put your thumb behind the slide when you fire a shot.

No, don't do that. Keep your thumbs to the side of the slide with one overlapping the other. :roll:


SSHHHHHHHH!

:mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
juniper wrote:
and who doesn't know this?

Well apparently, 56% of the United States doesn't know this.

juniper wrote:
So why all the fear and hysteria? Everyone here thinks you need a gun to protect yourself, but apparently you are pretty safe.

See, this is what I mean when I talk about people saying stupid shit. Tell me, genius, were the unarmed people in New Orleans safe?
AH HA HA HA!

not

Tell us, oh you all-safe-gun-owner, would *YOU* have been "safe" if you where in a crowd when someone starts shooting into the very same? You'd run like everybody else.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Tell us, oh you all-safe-gun-owner, would *YOU* have been "safe" if you where in a crowd when someone starts shooting into the very same? You'd run like everybody else.

If I led anyone to believe that someone is safe because they're armed, that's a mistake. You're never safe. What you have is the opportunity to stop the incident before it gets out of hand. You, as someone who is armed, are a contributing factor to putting a stop to it.

Regarding what I'd do, if I was armed I'm pretty confident I would sprint for cover and assume a position. I'm even more confident that if I ran like everyone else I'd kill myself later for cowardice.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Yamakuzure wrote:
Tell us, oh you all-safe-gun-owner, would *YOU* have been "safe" if you where in a crowd when someone starts shooting into the very same? You'd run like everybody else.

If I led anyone to believe that someone is safe because they're armed, that's a mistake. You're never safe. What you have is the opportunity to stop the incident before it gets out of hand. You, as someone who is armed, are a contributing factor to putting a stop to it.

Regarding what I'd do, if I was armed I'm pretty confident I would sprint for cover and assume a position. I'm even more confident that if I ran like everyone else I'd kill myself later for cowardice.

You would do what you've been trained to do, without even thinking about it. You'd drop to your stomach and return fire.

Unless you were still awake from partying it up on Bourbon street all night prior, in which you'd probably yell, "BlaaaAAARRRRwhaaaat the FUCK!", then charge the guy while screaming "Semper Fiiiiiii!", and head-butt him unconscious with well-polished battering ram of a cranium. :P
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

You would do what you've been trained to do, without even thinking about it. You'd drop to your stomach and return fire.

Unless you were still awake from partying it up on Bourbon street all night prior, in which you'd probably yell, "BlaaaAAARRRRwhaaaat the FUCK!", then charge the guy while screaming "Semper Fiiiiiii!", and head-butt him unconscious with well-polished battering ram of a cranium. :P
But didn't he just work in the IT?
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!
Misandric Femistasi seems to be the most accurate term.
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

You would do what you've been trained to do, without even thinking about it. You'd drop to your stomach and return fire.

Unless you were still awake from partying it up on Bourbon street all night prior, in which you'd probably yell, "BlaaaAAARRRRwhaaaat the FUCK!", then charge the guy while screaming "Semper Fiiiiiii!", and head-butt him unconscious with well-polished battering ram of a cranium. :P
But didn't he just work in the IT?

All Marines are Marines. In the Navy, Army, and Air Force, there are some true REMFs, but all Marines are Marines. The Marine Corps uses the Navy's REMFs.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
BonezTheGoon wrote:
Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!
Misandric Femistasi seems to be the most accurate term.

Your great-grandsons will be relegated to a slave-like class and treated as subhumans by females, who will justify keeping them is bonds as being necessary for civilization to avoid the war and violent crime they have been plagued with. By 250 years from now or so, males will have been completely eradicated, except for medical industry specimens.
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
tylerwylie wrote:
BonezTheGoon wrote:
Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!
Misandric Femistasi seems to be the most accurate term.

Your great-grandsons will be relegated to a slave-like class and treated as subhumans by females, who will justify keeping them is bonds as being necessary for civilization to avoid the war and violent crime they have been plagued with. By 250 years from now or so, males will have been completely eradicated, except for medical industry specimens.
However once we reach that point progress will slow to a crawl as 95% of the population pursued degrees in Women's Gender Studies and Sociology.
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Lemme smang it girl
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More importantly, now is the time to buy preferred stock in vibrator companies for your descendants.

Last edited by Bones McCracker on Sat May 18, 2013 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
More importantly, now is the time to buy preferred stock companies for your descendants.

They can have a package of stock cubes.
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!


potentially dangerous to men and potentially dangerous to other men are different.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BonezTheGoon wrote:
Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!


potentially dangerous to men and potentially dangerous to other men are different.

The part you're missing is that it ought to be limited to "dangerous men". It goes back to the underlying assumption of collectivist authoritarianism: all men are stupid and evil, and must be controlled.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pussification of Western culture.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The pussification of Western culture.


or civilisation.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

The part you're missing is that it ought to be limited to "dangerous men". It goes back to the underlying assumption of collectivist authoritarianism: all men are stupid and evil, and must be controlled.


how's that going? Dangerous men have a small hill to climb to get guns in the US.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

The part you're missing is that it ought to be limited to "dangerous men". It goes back to the underlying assumption of collectivist authoritarianism: all men are stupid and evil, and must be controlled.


how's that going?

It would go better if someone would implement the policy I suggested earlier (the one that you and every other knee-jerking lemming on the planet pretends does not exist, because it doesn't accomplish what your puppet-masters REALLY want, which is to make helpless livestock-like drones out of the people, ass-cheeks well-lubricated and dutifully held agape by the Pied Pipers of populist demagoguery, thoroughly yoked with tax slavery, and being vigorously jack-hammered in the existential ass by the rights-violating penis of authoritarianism, to the ball-slapping rhythm of collectivist distortions of utilitarianism, while fools like you cheer like they're at a bull fight in which they don't know they are the bull.
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BonezTheGoon
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
tylerwylie wrote:
BonezTheGoon wrote:
Muso wrote:
I think there are a lot of estrogen fueled authoritarian fantasies about taking away anything potentially dangerous from men.


++ I love this!

Those misandrists in power!
Misandric Femistasi seems to be the most accurate term.

Your great-grandsons will be relegated to a slave-like class and treated as subhumans by females, who will justify keeping them is bonds as being necessary for civilization to avoid the war and violent crime they have been plagued with. By 250 years from now or so, males will have been completely eradicated, except for medical industry specimens.
However once we reach that point progress will slow to a crawl as 95% of the population pursued degrees in Women's Gender Studies and Sociology.


Oh I thought you were going to point out that most progress is driven by the desire to impress the opposite sex.
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