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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:07 am    Post subject: Just Want to vent Reply with quote

People who think that because Gentoo is free, they should be handed a complete install, for free, and not have to RTFM, effing piss me off

That is all.

NQS
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ppurka
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*phew*

Was expecting a bigger rant. :twisted:
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
*phew*

Was expecting a bigger rant. :twisted:


Rant?

Sounded more like a whine to me *shrugs*
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been seeing a worrying increase in the number of users lately who think Gentoo is a one-click ricer dispensary.

There's nothing wrong with the people who insist on running weird kernels, stage1 builds, LTO, whatever. It's the ones that show up demanding you fix their system and lack the mental faculties to even read the plain error messages in front of their face. It's excusable if English isn't your first language but that seems to not be the case most of the time.
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here's what went down.

For the past several weeks, this old man has been asking me about Gentoo, the kind that are easy to find with minimal searching. Stuff like does Gentoo come with ftp and telnet, why doesn't the install cd come with a list of files on it, and where is that list.

Then there is the stupid questions, like What library does Gentoo use to connect to bittorrent to download packages (uh, what?)?. What "packager" does it use (Doesn't use a "packager", portage s just a script to download, compile and install software)?. Where can he bittorrent the packages he wants...

Next is the "i'm a computer expert" part. He claims to have been using freebsd 4 point something (don't recall) for 20 years. When I explain that portage is "modeled after BSD ports", he says he knows what ports are, they're what you plug into, and continues to ask about the packager.

Finally comes the legal accusations part. I got tired of his questions, so I told him goto gentoo.org, first link on the left is the handbook. read that and then he can ask me questions. He says he doesn't want to read it. Fine. I tell him that if he wants it for free, he'll have to do some work. If he wants to pay me, then i can put it on, or he can go buy a commercial distro.

He asked me to give him an image of my setup. I told him that there was no way I'd violate my system security by giving him all my passwords and configuration files that are stored on it (sure, most are encrypted, but some can be read by owner or root), plus the fact that every gentoo install is custom, so what I use may not work for him. Because I won't do that, "I'm violating the GPL. Mr. Torvald (sic) stole his kernel from his instructor and should be arrested. The guy who wrote Gentoo stole it from the University of Berkley while he was a student there and also should be arrested..."

So, yeah, people like that piss me off.

NQS
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this topic went from bad to WTF pretty fast...
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Well this topic went from bad to WTF pretty fast...


Yep :lol:
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
He asked me to give him an image of my setup. [...] Because I won't do that, "I'm violating the GPL. Mr. Torvald (sic) stole his kernel from his instructor and should be arrested. The guy who wrote Gentoo stole it from the University of Berkley while he was a student there and also should be arrested..."

NotQuiteSane ... have his psychiatrist contact your lawyer ... and the lawyers of the University of Helsinki and Berkley ... though, that said, it can probably be settled out of court if you have a copy of FreeDOS you can slap on his hardisk ... by the sounds of things he'll never know the difference.

best ... khay
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swathe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAHA well that certainly gave me a good laugh this morning over my coffee :)
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phajdan.jr
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Next is the "i'm a computer expert" part. He claims to have been using freebsd 4 point something (don't recall) for 20 years. When I explain that portage is "modeled after BSD ports", he says he knows what ports are, they're what you plug into, and continues to ask about the packager.

[...]

He asked me to give him an image of my setup. I told him that there was no way I'd violate my system security by giving him all my passwords and configuration files that are stored on it (sure, most are encrypted, but some can be read by owner or root), plus the fact that every gentoo install is custom, so what I use may not work for him. Because I won't do that, "I'm violating the GPL. Mr. Torvald (sic) stole his kernel from his instructor and should be arrested. The guy who wrote Gentoo stole it from the University of Berkley while he was a student there and also should be arrested..."

So, yeah, people like that piss me off.


Yeah, looks like that guy had little clue about what he was talking about. Don't worry about that. I'd also be pissed off.

Speaking of new users though - I was lately thinking that for the health of the distro it's good to have constant inflow of new users. I wonder how we're doing in Gentoo, and what percentage of new (non-)users are like described above.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phajdan.jr wrote:
Speaking of new users though - I was lately thinking that for the health of the distro it's good to have constant inflow of new users. I wonder how we're doing in Gentoo, and what percentage of new (non-)users are like described above.

phajdan.jr ... I'd agree with the first part, with the proviso that its not a numbers game (the Ubuntu claim that its "used by 20 million people worldwide every day" comes to mind). In terms of the latter, well, hopefully not that many are as crazy/misinformed/belligerent, and while its hard to make generalisations, a good proportion tend to make some effort to read the docs, and provide information when asking for assistance. However, given the generality, these assertions tend to be very weak as we're speaking about individuals rather than a "new user" mindset.

When judging "how we're doing" we should keep in mind a number of factors. Having users that pick up gentoo, get some idea of how it works, improve upon that understanding, contribute in some way, etc, etc, is possibly far more healthy in the long term than the statistic that can be counted as part of some "numbers game".

Also, while an inflow of new users is important, the current users (or the "community" dynamic) is equally as important, conflicts are often more prominent where the inflow is high enough to produce a schism, or division, between some established group and "newcomers" (which is somewhat being played out in some respects wrt "old fuddy-duddy sysvinit" and "new shiny systemd").

Anyhow ... I'm not sure if your question was rhetorical, so enough said.

best ... khay
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djdunn
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for the OP...

so he didnt want to read the handbook, or the manuals, i assume he couldnt get it to install or didnt want to try, then accuses you of breaking the GPL because you wont image your system and hand it to him...

and i thought i was lazy
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swirling_vortex
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Next is the "i'm a computer expert" part. He claims to have been using freebsd 4 point something (don't recall) for 20 years. When I explain that portage is "modeled after BSD ports", he says he knows what ports are, they're what you plug into, and continues to ask about the packager.

lol, FreeBSD didn't come into existence until November of 1993. Are you sure he wasn't running Windows?
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depontius
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phajdan.jr wrote:

Speaking of new users though - I was lately thinking that for the health of the distro it's good to have constant inflow of new users. I wonder how we're doing in Gentoo, and what percentage of new (non-)users are like described above.


I generally tell people not to use Gentoo, unless they're ready to ignore my advice and use it, anyway. I go on to explain the I use it, and it's not Ubuntu or Mint, but if you want to learn and dig a bit deeper into things, it's great.
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