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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
The company I work for have entry levels to progress down certain branches.

Not in English though, apparently. :P

We have a university accreditation system. Employers understand it. We have college entrance exams that are heavily weighted as admission criteria for all colleges. The more mistaken beliefs you have, the lower the score you will have on these.

I don't think someone (say wswartzendruber) believing "the Earth is only 6,000 years old" is any more dangerous or harmful a belief that, say, aidanjt's belief that "gravity has nothing to do with why warm air rises" or "capitalism is the end-stage form of feudalism", or mcgruff's belief that "humans are the most successful species on Earth" (and that H. sapiens owes this to collectivism), etc.

There are numerous sources of misinformation, and our own governments are probably the biggest of them all. Developed countries probably need to worry more about misinformation from government subsuming truth, reason, and critical thinking in our educational systems than we do the shriveling vestiges of Christianity. (Although increased immigration from less-developed parts of the world could change that, and not all religions are shrinking).

Alongside misinformation, is simple limited cognitive capacity any less harmful? I refer you to the "gravity has nothing to do with" example above. There are only a certain number of things educators can cover in terms of "lists of facts" and "multiple choice" learning. At some point, we must synthesize information and deduce new facts for ourselves. Whether a teacher tells one explicitly that gravity is a principle driving force of convection or not (as opposed to just mentioning heat), one should be able to deduce that from having been instructed that the rising and falling of material takes place because of changes in density. Um... okay... and what makes things fall? Gravity. So why does warm stuff rise? Displacement by cold stuff, caused by gravity. It's there for anybody to figure out, but not everybody is capable of it. So should we "ban" or disenfranchise those who aren't capable? Are they any less "harmful to society" than misinformation?

I don't think so. However, I do think that as human individuals, they deserve to be treated like people. That means being allowed the freedom to think, believe, say, and do what they want, to the extent it doesn't violate anybody else's rights. When we lose sight of the importance of respect for the individual, then we have lost what it means to be human. Collectives are not human, humans are human, and the individual is the unit of humanity. The cost associated with that is that not everybody is perfect. The benefit is that we're not forced to exist as some kind of drones stamped out by a cookie-cutter.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet even with this 10year old grasp of the English language, this illiterate limey is where he is, doing what he does and getting sometimes less than 24h notice to go anywhere inthe world to sort out technical problems either at design, entry into service or in-service issues. I'm fully aware of my weaknesses and where my strengths are and so is the company and that is whyi am dropped into hot situations to resolve then asap, buy equally why you will never see my name as the soul or significant author of some IEEE paper but more a significant contributor a(which if you knew where to look and whom to look for you would find)

And yes I'm aware of alot of the accreditation that exist in American (mother is American, interact with educated Americans daily...) But that doesn't stop the zambie worshipers from trying to become president or a Senator does it? I would be more worried about someone with such a narrow mind getting into a significant position of influence in any branch of the government
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just busting your balls. :P

I worry more about people in government who think islands can be capsized by having too many people on them, that we put men on Mars decades ago, that taking bribes is a normal part of how governments are run, and that there is nothing more important than "the good of the whole" (whatever that may be deemed to be on any given day).
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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

I don't think someone (say wswartzendruber) believing "the Earth is only 6,000 years old" is any more dangerous or harmful a belief that, say, aidanjt's belief that "gravity has nothing to do with why warm air rises" or "capitalism is the end-stage form of feudalism", or mcgruff's belief that "humans are the most successful species on Earth" (and that H. sapiens owes this to collectivism), etc.


there is a difference between getting certain facts of science wrong and abandoning it completely in favour of a book that has no scientific credibility (or even a book that did). As for the other thing you mentioned, it is far less clear cut. social sciences are not natural sciences.
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wswartzendruber wrote:
Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

I don't think someone (say wswartzendruber) believing "the Earth is only 6,000 years old" is any more dangerous or harmful a belief that, say, aidanjt's belief that "gravity has nothing to do with why warm air rises" or "capitalism is the end-stage form of feudalism", or mcgruff's belief that "humans are the most successful species on Earth" (and that H. sapiens owes this to collectivism), etc.


there is a difference between getting certain facts of science wrong and abandoning it completely in favour of a book that has no scientific credibility (or even a book that did). As for the other thing you mentioned, it is far less clear cut. social sciences are not natural sciences.

Science can't help us with many of the most important questions, such as morality. Science is only part of rational thought.

There is also a difference between actual rational thought and populist demagoguery that promotes an agenda as rational thought (it's "reason" because <litany of logical fallacies>). That's an appeal to authority, which is no more valid than religious faith.

And, there's a difference between real science and some agenda based on a distortion or misrepresentation of its findings.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

I don't think someone (say wswartzendruber) believing "the Earth is only 6,000 years old" is any more dangerous or harmful a belief that, say, aidanjt's belief that "gravity has nothing to do with why warm air rises" or "capitalism is the end-stage form of feudalism", or mcgruff's belief that "humans are the most successful species on Earth" (and that H. sapiens owes this to collectivism), etc.


there is a difference between getting certain facts of science wrong and abandoning it completely in favour of a book that has no scientific credibility (or even a book that did). As for the other thing you mentioned, it is far less clear cut. social sciences are not natural sciences.

Science can't help us with many of the most important questions, such as morality. Science is only part of rational thought.

There is also a difference between actual rational thought and populist demagoguery that promotes an agenda as rational thought (it's "reason" because <litany of logical fallacies>). That's an appeal to authority, which is no more valid than religious faith.

And, there's a difference between real science and some agenda based on a distortion or misrepresentation of its findings.


religion can't help you with morality either. If you think so, you haven't read th ebible.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct.

Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Correct.

Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.


and stone the unruly child. Even if it just protects against unwanted butt sex
and stone the shellfish eaters
and selling your daughter into slavery is ok
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Religious maniacs are running the USA.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

I don't think someone (say wswartzendruber) believing "the Earth is only 6,000 years old" is any more dangerous or harmful a belief that, say, aidanjt's belief that "gravity has nothing to do with why warm air rises" or "capitalism is the end-stage form of feudalism", or mcgruff's belief that "humans are the most successful species on Earth" (and that H. sapiens owes this to collectivism), etc.


there is a difference between getting certain facts of science wrong and abandoning it completely in favour of a book that has no scientific credibility (or even a book that did). As for the other thing you mentioned, it is far less clear cut. social sciences are not natural sciences.

Science can't help us with many of the most important questions, such as morality. Science is only part of rational thought.

There is also a difference between actual rational thought and populist demagoguery that promotes an agenda as rational thought (it's "reason" because <litany of logical fallacies>). That's an appeal to authority, which is no more valid than religious faith.

And, there's a difference between real science and some agenda based on a distortion or misrepresentation of its findings.


I agree that science can't help us with many things. But rational thought and reasonable discourse can. I don't think much good has come out of "do as my book says or else". The good things that have come from religious organization is more a result of a reasonable discourse.

But the funny thing that for some people religion trumps science when answer scientific questions. that's a problem.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only good parenting and education (which itself is a sort of chicken-and-egg problem) can solve that.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.
Religion & capital punishment nonsense go hand-in-hand. Kind of amusing, really. Except for the religions which make no bones about murder being A-OK.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.
Religion & capital punishment nonsense go hand-in-hand. Kind of amusing, really. Except for the religions which make no bones about murder being A-OK.

Not all religions are the same, therefore, not all their nonsense is the same. By your logic, it should follow that we didn't get belief in reincarnation from religion, because Christians don't believe in reincarnation.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But religion is how we got anti-capital punishment. Interesting.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
But religion is how we got anti-capital punishment. Interesting.


really? because it was christianity that really pushed capital punishment in germanic societies.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.
Religion & capital punishment nonsense go hand-in-hand. Kind of amusing, really. Except for the religions which make no bones about murder being A-OK.

Not all religions are the same, therefore, not all their nonsense is the same. By your logic, it should follow that we didn't get belief in reincarnation from religion, because Christians don't believe in reincarnation.
And Jesus would reply: WTF
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
pjp wrote:
But religion is how we got anti-capital punishment. Interesting.


really? because it was christianity that really pushed capital punishment in germanic societies.
That isn't my claim.
BoneKracker wrote:
Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.

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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
And Jesus would reply: WTF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

Pick up a book once in a while.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
pjp wrote:
But religion is how we got anti-capital punishment. Interesting.


really? because it was christianity that really pushed capital punishment in germanic societies.
That isn't my claim.
BoneKracker wrote:
Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.

Yeah, didn't you know the Germanic / Nordic peoples were pacifists who wouldn't hurt a fly, until the Christians came along and turned them into bloodthirsty gore-mongering savages. The cannibals of New Guinea didn't have capital punishment either, until the Spaniards gave them the idea, which was later reinforced by the Dutch and Germans.
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
pjp wrote:
But religion is how we got anti-capital punishment. Interesting.


really? because it was christianity that really pushed capital punishment in germanic societies.
That isn't my claim.
BoneKracker wrote:
Religion is how we get stupidity like "you should cut off your baby's foreskin" and all the anti-capital punishment nonsense.

Yeah, didn't you know the Germanic / Nordic peoples were pacifists who wouldn't hurt a fly, until the Christians came along and turned them into bloodthirsty gore-mongering savages. The cannibals of New Guinea didn't have capital punishment either, until the Spaniards gave them the idea, which was later reinforced by the Dutch and Germans.


almost. But it was 'christianity' that pushed for capital punishment for manslaughter, murder or theft.

While old Germanic law was all about economical compensation.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
wildhorse wrote:
And Jesus would reply: WTF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation
No angel wings for you. Period. :evil:

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Pick up a book once in a while.
BTW you are suppose to read a book. But first get an education.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, they do work by osmosis. Google "osmotic learning".
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made you do it, didn't I. Admit it.
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