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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should give it a try, then you could disparage it with authority.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a lot I want to test. I'm working on migrating data that I don't have enough room for on other drives, so my test system is kind of in limbo. I could make it a little easier by deleting some VMs, but I was hoping to not have to do that. But as long as it has taken, it'd probably be faster to try saving configuration files and just rebuild them.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
You should give it a try

We all float down here :twisted:
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Mardok45
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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fran wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
You should give it a try

We all float down here :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRo3TmM4Ljw
???
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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/2013/05/27/systemd-survey-results.html
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprise.

Obligatory ---> :roll:
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So 500 people, 57% of which are systemd developers, took a survey. 57% said it was fantassiedoobies, and the rest either said it was crap or didn't care. Is that about right?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went back to Gentoo. Things with systemd are in good order for me.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@w: I like the new avatar. It's more eye catching.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to make one of a globe with an anchor leaning against in. On the ground next to those will be a passed-out eagle with beer cans everywhere.

EDIT: This particular avatar is what the USMC uses for recruiting.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
So 500 people, 57% of which are systemd developers, took a survey. 57% said it was fantassiedoobies, and the rest either said it was crap or didn't care. Is that about right?

:lol:
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I need to make one of a globe with an anchor leaning against in. On the ground next to those will be a passed-out eagle with beer cans everywhere.
lol
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, is pjp going to try systemd?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like pjp already answered that question.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have decided to remove systemd.
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I have decided to remove systemd.

I wouldn't, they will slap a Fatwa on you for sure.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too late; systemd go bye-bye. :lol:
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what was the final straw, or the accumulation of undesirable traits leading to its removal?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
So what was the final straw, or the accumulation of undesirable traits leading to its removal?


I bet it's the borg-like nature of the software...

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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to try it out -- see for myself.

It doesn't make sense to use it in Gentoo until einfo and friends are either separated from openrc or no longer required by ebuilds. I don't see any movement to make that, or anything like it, happen.

That can be worked around in a number of ways, but they are architecturally ugly (e.g., keeping openrc installed on your system but un-used, just so you can use a couple of paltry functions in a handful of ebuilds) or they are unsupported (e.g., manually replacing the shared scripts with a kludgy substitute cobbled together by Joe User and unmaintained, and having your own local overlay for baselayout, or running your system off an overlay). And for what real benefit? A faster boot time? On a laptop it might be worth it.

If I feel a compelling need to use systemd, I'll use another distribution which supports it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219

Looks like someone's finally taken the initiative to segregate the functions.sh file from OpenRC.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That bug has basically been sitting there without action since September. It's a governance problem. Changes to shared components often are.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh, functions.sh is simple enough and its task quite trivial; I've been using Canek's version for months without any problem.

The only thing that bothers me is the lack of .service files for common services, like iptables or network with static ip, but there are numerous examples around for any .service file one may need.

lol at bug 373219, as I said devs don't give a flying fuck about it.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I just wanted to try it out -- see for myself.

It doesn't make sense to use it in Gentoo until einfo and friends are either separated from openrc or no longer required by ebuilds. I don't see any movement to make that, or anything like it, happen.

That can be worked around in a number of ways, but they are architecturally ugly (e.g., keeping openrc installed on your system but un-used, just so you can use a couple of paltry functions in a handful of ebuilds) or they are unsupported (e.g., manually replacing the shared scripts with a kludgy substitute cobbled together by Joe User and unmaintained, and having your own local overlay for baselayout, or running your system off an overlay). And for what real benefit? A faster boot time? On a laptop it might be worth it.

If I feel a compelling need to use systemd, I'll use another distribution which supports it.
Thanks, makes sense. I was mainly curious if it was a "failing" of systemd itself. Personally, it seems like it is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and in doing so, creates other problems (or at least the likelihood). Faster boot time seems like a low-priority need, and by Borging the environment, that has to create other problems or side effects.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it also blows a little too much for my tastes. Architecturally, it's a sound idea, but the interfaces and some parts of the implementation are kludgy and awkward. I chalk this up to growing pains mostly and expect it will become more usable over time.

As an example of what I'm talking about, look at how time services such as ntp are implemented in a bastardized fashion unlike anything else. Or look at how it's not easy to view a simple comparison if what you told it to run versus what's succeeded ir failed. You have to look at screenfulls of information you don't want or need. And, the Gui they released is useless.

It's a good product. I just evaluate it as 'not quite ready for prime time', particularly in Gentoo, where it's not yet fully supported.

I also don't trust the developers to be honest, and I don't think the product is as modular as advertised. It comes with a Borg Cube full of baggage.

I had an openrc/dhcpcd/openresolv interaction problem today, contacted Roy Marples, and he responded in about an hour. He identified the bug, patched the product (openresolv), gave it to me to test, and the new release was in portage a couple of hours later. I wonder what would happen if I personally emailed Herr Poettering with a similar issue.
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