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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: vim vs sublime Reply with quote

http://delvarworld.github.io/blog/2013/03/16/just-use-sublime-text/

does anyone agree/disagree with the article, especially with this statement: ?
Quote:
The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter.

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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is all especially scary because Vim out of the box is awful. I can’t stress how bad of an editor vanilla Vim is. Plugins are essential to make Vim usable.

I disagree with that, I use an almost vanilla vim instance, i do have a sweet .vimrc to get some improved display characteristics but thats about it.

I use sublime and vim constantly, all day every day. Given the unqualified choice, I would choose sublime but given that I do a lot of SSH terminal sessions... vim is just great.

Quote:
Vim is Oddly Bad at Indenting

This is true. I never really figured out how to paste in code segments and have it adhere to indentation consistently.
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ManDay
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also gvim and vim with gpm support, if you want it. In the end, it's a matter of taste. I'm using (vanilla) vim exclusively and althought VIM has at least one horrific flaw (no support for threading), I've found that I'm most efficient working with gvim compared to working with editors where commands are not just one keystroke ":" away.

PS: I, also, wouldn't recommend vim to anyone. I just use it.

And: Forgive my ignorance, but the author appears to deliberately ignore the fact that sublime is not FOSS.
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could you please post your .vimrc? I always look for new config files, because I'm not really confident with mine. A friend of mine uses Sublime and sent me the article, but because it's not FOSS I will not use it anyway.

I just don't believe that you are faster with a mouse then with keystrokes, even if you are not a super-vim-pro. On my thinkpad I have a trackpoint which I use quite often, so I have not to move my hands when I need the mouse. If I wouldn't have a trackpoint I would try to completely avoid the mouse.

Quote:
This is true. I never really figured out how to paste in code segments and have it adhere to indentation consistently.

you mean besides the not very confortable
Code:
/lineX,lineYcopylineZ
? but although I don't know very much commands it's horrible when I can't write/program with the different modi. I also disagree with the authors opinion that you use only 1% of the available commands (maybe I do, but not a more advanced user) for "daily use".
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
Quote:
This is all especially scary because Vim out of the box is awful. I can’t stress how bad of an editor vanilla Vim is. Plugins are essential to make Vim usable.

I disagree with that, I use an almost vanilla vim instance, i do have a sweet .vimrc to get some improved display characteristics but thats about it.

I use sublime and vim constantly, all day every day. Given the unqualified choice, I would choose sublime but given that I do a lot of SSH terminal sessions... vim is just great.

Quote:
Vim is Oddly Bad at Indenting

This is true. I never really figured out how to paste in code segments and have it adhere to indentation consistently.


:paste. Should switch vim to the correct mode forthat
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juniper
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
Quote:
This is all especially scary because Vim out of the box is awful. I can’t stress how bad of an editor vanilla Vim is. Plugins are essential to make Vim usable.

I disagree with that, I use an almost vanilla vim instance, i do have a sweet .vimrc to get some improved display characteristics but thats about it.

I use sublime and vim constantly, all day every day. Given the unqualified choice, I would choose sublime but given that I do a lot of SSH terminal sessions... vim is just great.

Quote:
Vim is Oddly Bad at Indenting

This is true. I never really figured out how to paste in code segments and have it adhere to indentation consistently.


I too disagree. I am far far far from a vim super pro, but all i really use is their latex plugin.

touching the mouse is so slow.
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dunno. from my perspective, instead of pretending that chevrolet corvair is awesome car, why not move along?

This guy is at least trying:
http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/
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Naib
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: vim vs sublime Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
http://delvarworld.github.io/blog/2013/03/16/just-use-sublime-text/

does anyone agree/disagree with the article, especially with this statement: ?
Quote:
The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter.

sublime is a pay for application, vim isn't
I have used quite a large number of editors over they years and there has actually been one (well notepad but I don't count that) that has consistently existed and has only improved... vim

GUI's are great when the exact thing you need todo isn't fully know, the gui provides you with a nice means to visually navigate.
keyboard interaction however... Some things may be faster by the mouse to hit a TOOLBAR icon, but not all... also not everyone uses a laptop, my mouse is usually quite far away from the keyboard and if you can touchtype with a reasonable speed the keys of vim are quite quick
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
dunno. from my perspective, instead of pretending that chevrolet corvair is awesome car, why not move along?

vim is not a chevrolet corvair, at most something like K.I.T.T. or maybe only David Hasselhoff?! :)

Quote:
This guy is at least trying:
http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/04/12/light-table---a-new-ide-concept/

Looks nice, have you tried it?
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to fiddle with it soon, have too much on my plate atm :)
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: vim vs sublime Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
does anyone agree/disagree with the article, especially with this statement: ?
Quote:
The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter.
The underlined part seems reasonable. Beating a mouse would depend on the task. The keyboard is often faster, if you know how to use it.
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: vim vs sublime Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
LoTeK wrote:
does anyone agree/disagree with the article, especially with this statement: ?
Quote:
The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter.
The underlined part seems reasonable. Beating a mouse would depend on the task. The keyboard is often faster, if you know how to use it.

I love these kind of statements.
They are absolutly 100% correct. But they're also missing the point:
You can't beat a mouse at making arbitrary screen jumps. But you don't want to make arbitrary screen jumps. You want to jump to positions in text, organized into lines, grouped into sentences and words. That is why even oh-so-mouse-driven editor will have a "go to line xy" functionality.
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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
could you please post your .vimrc?


I use one based on this person's work.

https://github.com/amix/vimrc
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: vim vs sublime Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
That is why even oh-so-mouse-driven editor will have a "go to line xy" functionality.
Indeed. And it is a great feature to have. But when I'm drawing a box or circle and want to place it for visual appeal, the mouse wins. And if you don't know the exact coordinates of an existing item you want to cut and paste, arbitrary on screen jumps are quite the handy tool to have at your disposal. Missing the point is fun, isn't it? (not to mention arbitrary) :P
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