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[guns] Why does no one care about the ACTUAL PROBLEM?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I don't see those "honest people". I see people like you blaming our right to bear arms and running around flailing their arms about it at every opportunity, while doing nothing about the real causes, despite the facts. The facts are that the percentage of our population who have gun has gone down steadily over the years, while incidents of randomly-targeted mass violence have gone up. They are completely unrelated. The global studies also find no relationship. Meanwhile, mostly because of this red herring, virtually nothing has been done as a result of these incidents to address the real causes.


I will say it once more. I blame the culture, history racial tensions, poverty, and others, AND the easy access to guns.

If anything, people have tried to address the problem from every angle, EXCEPT a mass ban on guns. No, banning them just in chicago won't work (even for chicago).

you are the only one suggesting that the most used tool to do the job isn't a factor.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been my observation that disarmed populaces are easy targets for dictatorial takeover.

With that said, why doesn't Sweden have an exceptionally high crime rate? They allow fully automatic weapons.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
It has been my observation that disarmed populaces are easy targets for dictatorial takeover.
Works rather well.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I don't see those "honest people". I see people like you blaming our right to bear arms and running around flailing their arms about it at every opportunity, while doing nothing about the real causes, despite the facts. The facts are that the percentage of our population who have gun has gone down steadily over the years, while incidents of randomly-targeted mass violence have gone up. They are completely unrelated. The global studies also find no relationship. Meanwhile, mostly because of this red herring, virtually nothing has been done as a result of these incidents to address the real causes.


I will say it once more. I blame the culture, history racial tensions, poverty, and others, AND the easy access to guns.

If anything, people have tried to address the problem from every angle, EXCEPT a mass ban on guns. No, banning them just in chicago won't work (even for chicago).

you are the only one suggesting that the most used tool to do the job isn't a factor.

Wrong. That's what all the studies show. The tool isn't a causal factor, and taking it away doesn't reduce the problem. The causes lie elsewhere. Even the credible studies of the United States alone, analyzing the effects of variations in gun laws from state to state, fail to show what you seem to take on faith for some inexplicable reason.

Slicing data by what type of tool was used doesn't make much sense, because anything can be, and is, used. Rates are not lower where guns aren't available. That's your perception, based on anecdotal evidence or propaganda or something, but it's simply not true. When you slice data by things like "circumstances of homicide", then you're starting to get somewhere in terms of understanding causes and addressing the problem.

That's when you start to recognize the prevalence of things like robbery, drugs, juvenile gangs, alcohol, etc. (and that's just because those are the sortings that happen to be available). What will we see when we start analyzing homicides by "violent video game player > 4 hrs/wk", "withdrawn from prescription psychotropic", "single-parent family", "abused child", "addictive drug user", and so on? Moreover, if as you claim, the problem has been addressed from "every angle", why aren't those statistics already available in official, empirical form?

Just look at the debate over violence on TV and video games; why is there no data (not bullshit "studies" based on some surveys, but real empirical data from the FBI, for example, showing these data for all the homicides in recent years)? I'll tell you why, because nobody is asking the FBI to report that data. So it's utter bullshit that "every angle" is being addressed. We don't even know what the "angles" are.
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kurtdezhyrenze
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I don't see those "honest people". I see people like you blaming our right to bear arms and running around flailing their arms about it at every opportunity, while doing nothing about the real causes, despite the facts. The facts are that the percentage of our population who have gun has gone down steadily over the years, while incidents of randomly-targeted mass violence have gone up. They are completely unrelated. The global studies also find no relationship. Meanwhile, mostly because of this red herring, virtually nothing has been done as a result of these incidents to address the real causes.


I will say it once more. I blame the culture, history racial tensions, poverty, and others, AND the easy access to guns.

If anything, people have tried to address the problem from every angle, EXCEPT a mass ban on guns. No, banning them just in chicago won't work (even for chicago).

you are the only one suggesting that the most used tool to do the job isn't a factor.


what matter most is not to have guns...it is because of some individual doesn't knows their existence...crime rate will not reduce if the authorize wont figure out the roots... 8)

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Last edited by kurtdezhyrenze on Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Word.
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WUT?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got this. Years of heavy drinking enables me to translate:
Quote:
what matter most is not to have guns...it is because of some individual doesn't knows their existence...crime rate will not reduce if the authorize wont figure out the roots.

"What matters most is not gun control. Criminals don't pay attention to laws anyway. The crime rate will not be reduced unless the authorities figure out it's root causes."
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I got this. Years of heavy drinking enables me to translate:
Quote:
what matter most is not to have guns...it is because of some individual doesn't knows their existence...crime rate will not reduce if the authorize wont figure out the roots.

"What matters most is not gun control. Criminals don't pay attention to laws anyway. The crime rate will not be reduced unless the authorities figure out it's root causes."

Better. Here's what I say to that: Evil is the mother of all roots. Or is it money?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I got this. Years of heavy drinking enables me to translate:
Quote:
what matter most is not to have guns...it is because of some individual doesn't knows their existence...crime rate will not reduce if the authorize wont figure out the roots.

"What matters most is not gun control. Criminals don't pay attention to laws anyway. The crime rate will not be reduced unless the authorities figure out it's root causes."

Better. Here's what I say to that: Evil is the mother of all roots. Or is it money?

No, no... it's "women will evil your root for money", or something.
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
No, no... it's "women will evil your root for money", or something.
:D
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