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ppurka
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you don't mean you are trying to run the KDE desktop and e17 desktop at the same time! That is definitely not possible. But you are free to run KDE applications when you are logged in to the e17 desktop. Also check your ~/.xsession-errors, or /var/log/slim.log in case you are using slim to login, to check for error messages from e17.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what are some good apps for viewing pictures, pdf's, and listening to music under e17?

Decided to give it a try, liking what i see so far :) - well except for no thumbnails of the pdfs :/
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the ones you are already using. The efl based ones are not quite up to par.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: ><)))°€ Reply with quote

Sorry for another huge'ish post, but I feel like trying to be quite specific about this. :P

ppurka wrote:
I hope you don't mean you are trying to run the KDE desktop and e17 desktop at the same time! That is definitely not possible. But you are free to run KDE applications when you are logged in to the e17 desktop. Also check your ~/.xsession-errors, or /var/log/slim.log in case you are using slim to login, to check for error messages from e17.

Well, yes, but it's not the actual goal. How do you mean it's impossible, though?

Impossible nothing, is!

It was rather funny how KDE would not run for the user e17 did run, but that was likely because the user was not in the video group. With that said, I'm very much able to run KDE and e17 at the same time, on the same user account (after starting one with startx, I'd go Alt+Ctrl+F2 (or other), edit .xinitrc to start enlightenment or KDE instead, and then, using startx - :1). I just now noticed that I had forgotten one - from that (meaning it should be startx -- :<screen_number>), but I imagine it now automagically uses the next available screen (i.e., startx can be used alone; I don't think that worked before).

Not using Slim, or anything similar. Just plain old startx, as indicated above, and I've probably never had the ~/.xsession-errors file. :S

Now to answer to my own questions:

Chiitoo wrote:
Why are we unable to get a backtrace? I did not try to manually attach to the process yet. Have to look into that with more time.

The answer to this was way more simple than I had thought. The “WSOD” mentions checking if there is a gdb action line in the sysactions.conf file. I didn't pursue it at first, as I imagined it would be in ~/.e and didn't do more research at the time. I soon noticed it's in /etc/enlightenment, and that Gentoo indeed doesn't seem to ship the file with such a line (even as a commented out one, which seems strange as it's even mentioned at trac.enlightenment.org that a correct file should have it).

So that took more or less care about getting some automatic crash-dumps. I haven't had much success with manually attaching to the process(es). Doing that doesn't give me the same backtraces, but I'm probably just missing something.

Chiitoo wrote:
Why is shot required for the main user but not for the test (almost clean) user?

Still no idea about this one. It's not exactly required, as one might imagine, just that having it would allow me to get to the actual desktop to use things like the system settings option. Which would then crash things instead... It's not required indeed after I found the real(?) problem (read on).

Chiitoo wrote:
Does it seem like a bug in dependencies?

Probably not, but instead, a combination of something weird. And things.

So, since there (to my knowledge) shouldn't be any other places where there could be any old e-cruft, I instead focused on the fact that e17 sort of roams about at least ~/.local to make desktop files and stuff. After getting some backtraces, I believe I was on the right track. I noticed some things before the e_sigabrt_act and

Code:
#3  <signal handler called>
No symbol table info available.
#4  0x00007fadda668755 in raise () from /lib64/libc.so.6
No symbol table info available.
#5  0x00007fadda669bc7 in abort () from /lib64/libc.so.6
No symbol table info available.
#6  0x00007fadda6a6875 in ?? () from /lib64/libc.so.6
No symbol table info available.
#7  0x00007fadda6ac5fd in ?? () from /lib64/libc.so.6
No symbol table info available.

referring to ecore_file_app_exe_get, dealing with a Wine icon:

Code:
#8  0x00007faddc8cc7f9 in ecore_file_app_exe_get (
    app=0x7fadd20d1310 "WINEPREFIX=/kinda/long/Path\\ With/Spaces/wine-test wine '/another/path/With Spaces/etc/this/is/even/longer though/blubb.exe'") at ecore_file.c:942

SO... before going for the exact file in question, I decided to simply move the ~/.local/share away, and what do you know, e17 would start up just fine. It would do so even without the shot module now, with a note about it not being found, and the option to unload it. Or something along those lines.

So I experimented a bit with the file, and changed the format to:

Code:
WINEPREFIX="/kinda/long/Path With/Spaces/wine-test" wine '/another/path/With Spaces/etc/this/is/even/longer though/blubb.exe'

and it would work.

It still crashes at times with certain settings dialogues such as changing options for (some) windows (e_int_border_remember). I haven't yet looked into that much, but it looks like I found out the culprit for the main issues for now, and could run e17 just fine for quite a while (simultaneously with KDE 8)).

Thanks again for the input! I tried to be specific enough to be able to help someone else that might encounter something like this (even if it's not very likely). I imagine there is a bug to be reported towards e17, as it seems it can't parse the 'address' for a reason or another, and instead of, I don't know, skipping it, it just makes the whole thing unusable. :S

Oh, one question, ppurka. Does the x11-wm/enlightenment-0.17.1 package actually build with -p for you? It doesn't for me, and instead, fails with the following:
Code:
libtool: link: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -std=gnu99 -fPIE -I/usr/include/eina-1 -I/usr/include/eina-1/eina -I/usr/include/valgrind -O -pipe -p -Wshadow -Wall -W -Wl,-O1 -o enlightenment_sys enlightenment_sys-e_sys_main.o -pie  -Wl,--as-needed -leina -lpthread
/bin/sh ../../libtool  --tag=CC   --mode=link x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -std=gnu99 -I/usr/include/efreet-1 -I/usr/include/ecore-1 -I/usr/include/eet-1 -I/usr/include/ecore-1 -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/eina-1 -I/usr/include/eina-1/eina -I/usr/include/valgrind  -O -pipe -p -Wshadow -Wall -W  -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -o enlightenment_static_grabber enlightenment_static_grabber-e_static_grab.o -leina -lpthread -lecore -leina -lpthread -leet -lefreet -lecore_x 
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.7.2/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.7.2/../../../../lib64/gcrt1.o: relocation R_X86_64_32S against `__libc_csu_fini' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.7.2/../../../../lib64/gcrt1.o: could not read symbols: Bad value

I noticed there is a Gentoo Documentation about something like this here, but I didn't look into it more, as I already figured that me not getting a backtrace wasn't about my CFLAGS indeed.


That is all, fer now.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
Use the ones you are already using. The efl based ones are not quite up to par.


Doesn't that sort of defeat the point then?

guess i will have to re-emerge parts of XFCE then or just go back to it
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Chiitoo - have never tried -p. So, I can't say whether it works or not.

@Dark Foo - The applications that are present and semi-useful in E use elementary any way. A terminal app is terminology. A very lightweight image app is ev (it is available in svn). Bit more nonbasic image apps are present in svn - ephoto comes to mind. pdf reader is also present - envision and epdf combo iirc. But all of them use elementary, and some like epdf and terminology do have quite bad bugs.

As for whether it defeats the purpose of using e17 - it doesn't for me. I use e17 for its excellent window management facilities. I have yet to find a more capable window manager (fvwm is the only one I think that can do all/most of what e17 does but fvwm takes massive effort to configure). I use both gtk and kde apps - essentially whichever is better and more stable (irrespective of the toolkit).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so SVN and manual compile are the only options or are most in portage?

What I would like is a lightweight photo, music and pdf viewer, suppose if the stuff for E is lacking atm external stuff will have to be used, so any suggestions for those would be great , is EconnMan in portage or is that a SVN job too? as I have a rather large ! on the desktop and it says that EConnman is not running
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightweight photo - I use feh, but you can also use ev ( http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/PROTO/ev/ ). It is just one teeny bit of a C file. It depends on elementary though, which is in portage.

Lightweight pdf - You can try envision it is in the enlightenment overlay. But don't get your hopes up. The other option is mupdf.

Lightweight music player - no idea. If it were up to me, I would simply use mplayer/xine/vlc. I need something a bit more featureful, so I use clementine. I have used gmusicbrowser (I didn't like the playlist management), and moc (not developed anymore and no replaygain support) earlier.

No idea about econnman. I use networkmanager + nm-applet (with -gnome).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes I went with FEH (forgot about that) and googled for lightweight PDF, so now I am using mupdf, thinking of using mpd for music, just looking on a lightweight front end for it, shouldn't be too hard :)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, it seems moc has picked up development again. So, unless you want replaygain support and you want to spend hours configuring the obtuse mpd, try out moc. It is the neatest/simplest server-client music player I saw. Very intuitive to use also.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiitoo wrote:
startx can be used alone; I don't think that worked before

Yeps, it didn't, and I remember those dark days.

ppurka wrote:
I use e17 for its excellent window management facilities. I have yet to find a more capable window manager (fvwm is the only one I think that can do all/most of what e17 does but fvwm takes massive effort to configure). I use both gtk and kde apps - essentially whichever is better and more stable (irrespective of the toolkit)

Same here. Specially about FVWM... dear Lord, how many times I promised myself to sit down and learn it to give up few hours later?

I love how e17 allows me to configure the 13 buttons of my mouse to do more than "back" and "forward" with such a simplicity.

Now, about the applications... you were saying that ev is lightweight? Do you consider it stable? I've tried nearly all E applications that were in gentoo some months ago and everything was so buggy that I dropped them all...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holysword wrote:
Now, about the applications... you were saying that ev is lightweight? Do you consider it stable? I've tried nearly all E applications that were in gentoo some months ago and everything was so buggy that I dropped them all...
I would consider it stable, if it is working. Personally, I just use feh because it is so fast. I did switch to ev at one point because it can quickly show pdf, and video; essentially anything the EFL can show. But it was a tad bit slower (just under a second slower) than feh to start up. feh doesn't show videos, etc but it opens up extremely fast and has nice keybinding, zoom, etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
Holysword wrote:
Now, about the applications... you were saying that ev is lightweight? Do you consider it stable? I've tried nearly all E applications that were in gentoo some months ago and everything was so buggy that I dropped them all...
I would consider it stable, if it is working. Personally, I just use feh because it is so fast. I did switch to ev at one point because it can quickly show pdf, and video; essentially anything the EFL can show. But it was a tad bit slower (just under a second slower) than feh to start up. feh doesn't show videos, etc but it opens up extremely fast and has nice keybinding, zoom, etc.

May I abuse your kindness and ask in which overlay I can find ev?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not in any overlay. Install elementary. And then compile it manually, using the make command. It is only one .c file. Then you can copy teh binary to /usr/local/bin.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
It is not in any overlay. Install elementary. And then compile it manually, using the make command. It is only one .c file. Then you can copy teh binary to /usr/local/bin.

Just did it... indeed lightweight, but is there any way to tell it to not open a maximized window?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeing as entrance was never released what is a good greeter to use with e17?

and is there a plugin to mount samba shares or do we need to do that manually?

Also does anyone know how to get feh to move onto the next image in a folder, because i have read the man pages, and none of the keys seem to work :/
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark Foo wrote:
seeing as entrance was never released what is a good greeter to use with e17?
I use slim. If you find that lxdm is in a sane state, you may use that also.
Quote:
and is there a plugin to mount samba shares or do we need to do that manually?
Not sure if it is possible to mount samba shares. AFAIK, it is not possible.
Quote:
Also does anyone know how to get feh to move onto the next image in a folder, because i have read the man pages, and none of the keys seem to work :/
Just open feh in the folder instead of one image, like
Code:
$ feh /path/to/image/directory

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Dark Foo
May I humbly suggest trying llpp, which is basically mupdf done better and maybe cmus for the music if you don't mind a very capable console player. For samba just use cifs and then any file manager on top.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't anyone find yet a way to uniquely define a window (related to this post) name, title, class or something like that?
Let us say... an EFM window?
Its truly hard to set "Remember Settings" for a window if it cannot be uniquely identified...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holysword wrote:
Haven't anyone find yet a way to uniquely define a window (related to this post) name, title, class or something like that?
Let us say... an EFM window?
Its truly hard to set "Remember Settings" for a window if it cannot be uniquely identified...
In general, the application itself should set the name, class, etc. If the application does not support this, it is not possible to do so AFAIK. I use urxvt with a custom name and I have it remembered along with quickaccess control. E17 handles that very well and no other urxvt windows are matched. The command I use is
Code:
 urxvt -g 120x40 -pe tabbed,matcher -T console -name console

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
Holysword wrote:
Haven't anyone find yet a way to uniquely define a window (related to this post) name, title, class or something like that?
Let us say... an EFM window?
Its truly hard to set "Remember Settings" for a window if it cannot be uniquely identified...
In general, the application itself should set the name, class, etc. If the application does not support this, it is not possible to do so AFAIK. I use urxvt with a custom name and I have it remembered along with quickaccess control. E17 handles that very well and no other urxvt windows are matched. The command I use is
Code:
 urxvt -g 120x40 -pe tabbed,matcher -T console -name console

Oh well... you CAN set the name, can't you?
enlightenment_filemanager does not (explicitly) have this option! Anyway, thank you for suggesting quickaccess!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

since switching to overlay 5 packages stuck
Code:
*      repository: http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk//imlib2
svn: E170000: URL 'http://svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/imlib2' doesn't exist
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enlightenment is good but not good enough considering there is no session and workspace management. So, you have to jump through hoops if you want to restore a working set of apps in there own desktops.

I don't know when are they going to stop putting polish and add these useful features.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

devsk wrote:
enlightenment is good but not good enough considering there is no session and workspace management. So, you have to jump through hoops if you want to restore a working set of apps in there own desktops.

I don't know when are they going to stop putting polish and add these useful features.

Oh, we all want features... the question is if this is a priority now. Every now and then I find a nonreproducible bug, and, let's say, once a day my e17 crashes and restarts. I just use e17 out of stubbornness (and because I love to configure my keys and mouse buttons to do ANYTHING I tell them to).
If anything, I'd say that the file manager needs more features, since its pretty much raw and not very customizable yet. Also, the widget set theme not matching wm theme is something very weird.


Now, changing subject...

I just got a new computer, and tried to get e17 working. I compiled everything, no error. But when I try to start X I get just a black screen. This is the Xorg.0.log.
Also, the console shows no errors for e17, this is the part of the output that I can see (and I don't know how to copy the full output ><).

After several minutes (like... 20min), the screen remains black, but I can see a X cursor there (like in TWM, but without TWM).

There could be several configuration issues, this is a new computer with a new GPU and a new CPU and kernel also...
Code:
arvis ~ # uname -a
Linux jarvis 3.10.9-gentoo #10 SMP PREEMPT Fri Aug 30 08:40:40 PDT 2013 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700MQ CPU @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
jarvis ~ # lspci | grep -i "nvidia\|vga"
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06)
01:00.0 3D controller: NVIDIA Corporation GK208M [GeForce GT 740M] (rev a1)


nvidia-drivers version is 325.15.

It might be important to mention that I have KDE installed in the same machine (most of the apps I use are qt- or kde-based) and it works just fine with compositing and all. Also, I'm playing Steam games on it without any problems.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to try downgrading the nvidia-drivers to 319.49. I have an 8800 gts and the 325 series drivers give me trouble when compositing is enabled in E17.
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