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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: mail-client, mail-provider, private mail-server Reply with quote

hey guys, what email provider do you use?
So far I'm using hotmail, which is of course evil, unethic, bad and unreal 8) so I'm looking for something different. Is there any "linux-oriented" provider? the best would be a gentoo.org address, but I guess this is only for developers...

I'm thinking about building my own email-server because of the learning experience, the privacy / control, but I haven't much time at the moment and moreover a poor internet-connection. Do someone of you have an email-server at home? is it a rough ride to set one up?

what email client do you use? @bonekracker: is there something like a "dwm-client" in the sense of a "one-C-file?" So far I've heard only about mutt, which is 3700 KB large.
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Last edited by LoTeK on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: mail-client, mail-provider, private mail-server Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
I'm thinking about building my own email-server because of the learning experience, the privacy / control, but I haven't much time at the moment and moreover a poor internet-connection. Do someone of you have an email-server at home? is it a rough ride to set one up?

Gmail? Or if you really don't want companies poking around your mail at all, rent a vserver or something. A simple postfix configuration is pretty easy, there's plenty of email documentation kicking around the internet.

LoTeK wrote:
what email client do you use? @bonekracker: is there something like a "dwm-client" in the sense of a "one-C-file?" So far I've heard only about mutt, which is 3700 KB large.

There's always fetchmail, cd ~/Mail, less ${message} and echo to mail(1), etc.. Mutt will hardly slow you down, though.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some routers and DSL modems come with an SMTP server. I use a Raspberry Pi with Gentoo for that.
Most mail messages are small. Any data transfer rate will be sufficient. In fact a modem would be good enough. Unless you are planning to distribute porn movies via mail.

Not sure what a "KB" is (kelvin * byte).
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Gmail? Or if you really don't want companies poking around your mail at all, rent a vserver or something. A simple postfix configuration is pretty easy, there's plenty of email documentation kicking around the internet.

I thought about Gmail, but I think google is to sneaky :) It's not that I have to hide ultra secret emails, but I don't like it when companies sniff around even when it's "only" an algorithm. On one hand it's comfortable when google suggest pages based on your search history etc, but on the other hand it's quite weird and they don't even mention that they do store informations. It's too bad that I've made a facebook account and until their servers break, they will always know my favorite movies :)

Quote:
There's always fetchmail, cd ~/Mail, less ${message} and echo to mail(1), etc..

ok thanks, that sounds great!! (not joking...)
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some routers and DSL modems come with an SMTP server. I use a Raspberry Pi with Gentoo for that.
Most mail messages are small. Any data transfer rate will be sufficient. In fact a modem would be good enough.

That sounds interesting!! I thought about buying a raspberry pi anyway..
Quote:
Unless you are planning to distribute porn movies via mail.

No, but an interesting idea too... :lol:

Quote:
Not sure what a "KB" is (kelvin * byte).

a kilobyte... :wink:
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
Some routers and DSL modems come with an SMTP server. I use a Raspberry Pi with Gentoo for that.
Most mail messages are small. Any data transfer rate will be sufficient. In fact a modem would be good enough.

That sounds interesting!! I thought about buying a raspberry pi anyway..
If there is some interest, I could write up a summary about how to get Gentoo onto the Raspberry Pi.
Quote:

Quote:
Unless you are planning to distribute porn movies via mail.

No, but an interesting idea too... :lol:

Quote:
Not sure what a "KB" is (kelvin * byte).

a kilobyte... :wink:
That would be a "k". :wink:
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If there is some interest, I could write up a summary about how to get Gentoo onto the Raspberry Pi.

yes, I would appreciate it!
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hosteurope.de: 6€/year.

As a mailclient I'm using isync and mutt. It kindof sucks but still is better than anything I've found.
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I try:
Code:
mail -s "test" me@me

I get:
Code:
send-mail: Cannot open mail:25
Can't send mail: sendmail process failed with error code 1

(the same with mutt)
All I've found on google are either old posts or don't work for me...
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://packages.gentoo.org/package/mail-mta/msmtp
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

before reading your post I've followed:
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Postfix

now I don't get any error, but I also don't receive any mail. I've checked with nmap that my port 25 is open...
btw, this wiki article is pretty new and the author uses telnet, but I thought telnet is deprecated?!
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use the web site http://mxtoolbox.com/ to test your SMTP server.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after running my own mail server ( via gentoo + postfix + dovecot + roundcubemail ) for well over ten years.

i use gmail.

imho, running one's own mail server is tedious and without much fruit. but of course ymmv.
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
after running my own mail server ( via gentoo + postfix + dovecot + roundcubemail ) for well over ten years.

i use gmail.

noooo...! :)

did you just loose your interest? I mean if you managed to set up a mail server for over ten years then it shouldn't be tedious, but maybe I will agree someday... :)

maybe stupid-noob questions, but what was the effort? firewall programming? how much time did you spent on running the server? do you work as sysadmin or coder, etc ?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want the full, Unixy learning experience, you should set up sendmail.
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gabrielg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After using ISP provided email addresses (which are transient as you have to change them every time you change ISP's, even worse than phone numbers these days), and hotmail, yahoo mail and gmail (in that order, and keeping all those accounts), I have my own server at home with OpenBSD (as I have it running on the router), sendmail (just because it's hard core, and not that hard to learn anyway), mutt (client), dovecot (to make it available through IMAP so I can see it with my phone) and cyrus-sasl (for authentication).
There is some documentation out there as to how to set all this up.

Positive points:
- My mail server actually works, as opposed to gmail and friends, which work whenever nobody is breaking anything. Of ccourse, I "control" when to break stuff.
- I use encryption, and I'm fairly confident that nobody else rather than me is reading my emails (as opposed to gmail, which gives your information to government agencies without a second thought, until recently, or maybe that's just PR).
- My rules to place emails in folders are way more advanced than those at any other provider because I don't need a friendly UI.
- I don't have to deal with the latest and greatest google's authentication silliness by which I have to "inform them" where I travel else they won't give me access to gmail with my custom IMAP client.

Negative points:
- Your mail server will be as good as your ISP. Mine has been crappy lately, which is a shame. I didn't do this yet, but you could implement redundancy at a trusty friend's server. I particularly don't care, especially as SMTP requires you to keep trying to deliver your emails for about 4-5 days, and ISP's are generally not that bad.
- Your hardware might break, but that's something that you can mitigate. RasPis are a great idea, as you can have many and set up a good cluster. I haven't done this though :)

I have, however, friends and colleagues who have done the opposite (namely migrating to gmail) mainly for practicality. I personally prefer my privacy and the occasional exercise for the brain.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
If you really want the full, Unixy learning experience, you should set up sendmail.
lol

Sounds like you're suggesting torture for an out-of-line Windows Admin.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He deserves it for blah blab blab can't be bothered to rtfm blab blab blab... :P
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabrielg wrote:
After using ISP provided email addresses (which are transient as you have to change them every time you change ISP's, even worse than phone numbers these days), and hotmail, yahoo mail and gmail (in that order, and keeping all those accounts), I have my own server at home with OpenBSD (as I have it running on the router), sendmail (just because it's hard core, and not that hard to learn anyway), mutt (client), dovecot (to make it available through IMAP so I can see it with my phone) and cyrus-sasl (for authentication).
There is some documentation out there as to how to set all this up.

Positive points:
- My mail server actually works, as opposed to gmail and friends, which work whenever nobody is breaking anything. Of ccourse, I "control" when to break stuff.
- I use encryption, and I'm fairly confident that nobody else rather than me is reading my emails (as opposed to gmail, which gives your information to government agencies without a second thought, until recently, or maybe that's just PR).
- My rules to place emails in folders are way more advanced than those at any other provider because I don't need a friendly UI.
- I don't have to deal with the latest and greatest google's authentication silliness by which I have to "inform them" where I travel else they won't give me access to gmail with my custom IMAP client.

Negative points:
- Your mail server will be as good as your ISP. Mine has been crappy lately, which is a shame. I didn't do this yet, but you could implement redundancy at a trusty friend's server. I particularly don't care, especially as SMTP requires you to keep trying to deliver your emails for about 4-5 days, and ISP's are generally not that bad.
- Your hardware might break, but that's something that you can mitigate. RasPis are a great idea, as you can have many and set up a good cluster. I haven't done this though :)

I have, however, friends and colleagues who have done the opposite (namely migrating to gmail) mainly for practicality. I personally prefer my privacy and the occasional exercise for the brain.


well the positive points outnumber the negative ones easily :) Thanks for the information...
Should I just google or do you know some good books? My experience with books is that they are mostly very big and I always want to read everything and in the end I read next to nothing :)
On the other hand I'm able to lose hours with google and in the end I've got nothing... :)
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gabrielg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:

Should I just google or do you know some good books? My experience with books is that they are mostly very big and I always want to read everything and in the end I read next to nothing :)


Start here maybe: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Postfix

Running a mail server requires you to read/understand a lot of things... if you aren't ready to face that, then perhaps this isn't for you, or do it gradually while you use your existing email accounts until you get it right.
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PaulBredbury
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: mail-client, mail-provider, private mail-server Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
building my own email-server because of the learning experience... but I haven't much time at the moment

LOL.

I use postfix, but just forwarding to fastmail, who I would recommend, with this in /etc/postfix/main.cf
Code:
relayhost = [mail.messagingengine.com]:587

And in the saslpass file:
Code:
mail.messagingengine.com    myuser@sent.com:mypassword

Also, for local delivery via fdm:
Code:
mailbox_command = /usr/bin/fdm -l -m -a stdin fetch
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Gmail as transfer agent, esmtp as submission agent (smtp and local), and procmail as local delivery agent and for header rewriting.

LoTek doesn't have the patience to figure mail out. I predict he dabbles for a week, asks more rtfm questions, and throws his hands up in frustration.
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed I dabbled alot lately, soon I will be on your level... No, after the time of frustration I will raise like a phoenix..
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My level is not something to aim for. :lol:
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