Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Pork found in prison halal food.
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bogamol
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 84
Location: Detroit, Michigan - The Home of Rock and Roll

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, Muslim prisoners have the option to not eat the meat, a vegetarian diet meets the Islamic dietary requirements.

However, meat is also, generally, allowable under Islam in certain predefined conditions. So, it would be entirely reasonable to eat meat, if the prisoner is told that the meat meets his religious requirements. If he knew that the meat did not meet his religious requirements, he would be free to not eat it. However, if the prison system lied to the prisoner about the fact that there is pork in the meat, how can he not be upset by that?

Maybe it's more likely than not that a prisoner is claiming an assault on his religious beliefs, where there are no legitimate religious beliefs, simply to antagonize the system. To that guy I say, "fuck off."


But here's what I've also seen: Sometimes a person goes to prison and finds God there. This can be a life altering experience for him and allowing him to grow in his new found faith may have long term consequences for the better. I've known people who have kicked heroin and other hardcore drugs and they attribute that success to their faith in Christ. It is plausible to me that someone may have the same type of experience with Islam. So, to my eye, the bottom line is that if finding God helps a prisoner to lead a better, non-criminal life, then we need to respect that change as a matter of policy for anyone who has reasonable religious requirements.



EDIT:

This is what I'd be saying if this were an American prison system.

Since this is in UK, I have to ask: Do you guys even have rights codified in any way? Or are you all trolling the planet for universal human rights because you still don't have any?
_________________
Freedom is the oxygen of the soul. -Moshe Dayan

Juniper wrote:
I fail to see the relevance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
But here's what I've also seen: Sometimes a person goes to prison and finds God there. This can be a life altering experience for him and allowing him to grow in his new found faith may have long term consequences for the better. I've known people who have kicked heroin and other hardcore drugs and they attribute that success to their faith in Christ. It is plausible to me that someone may have the same type of experience with Islam. So, to my eye, the bottom line is that if finding God helps a prisoner to lead a better, non-criminal life, then we need to respect that change as a matter of policy for anyone who has reasonable religious requirements.


A fucked up person may indeed find some normalcy by the act of adopting an operating system for his brain (religion), but that doesn't say he is not fucked up anymore. He/she is simply limiting the fuckedupness by the set of constraints that religion provides.
The problem with religion is that people practicing it believe they found God, since all of a sudden religion 1.0 is better OS then fucked up 2.0, and it gives better results.

So they insist on enforcing religion 1.0 on everybody else, not realizing that for healthy people, it is a downgrade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
Huh? Halal isn't just about ritual slaughter


That's part of it though. It s also fair and reasonable not to have to eat meat that has been butchered
in such a way. Besides, you may also have moral objections to eating food that has been prepared according
to any religions prescript.


Indeed. agreed. Especially if it is violent.

bogamol wrote:

IMO, Muslim prisoners have the option to not eat the meat, a vegetarian diet meets the Islamic dietary requirements.


Indeed, they can. if it is too much of a pain, we can tell them to suck it up. However, you can get halal food anywhere and everywhere in London, so it shouldn't be that hard.

What SHOULDN'T happen is telling them it is halal while there is pork in it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bogamol wrote:
goes to prison and finds God there.


What was he in for ?
_________________
Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
What SHOULDN'T happen is telling them it is halal while there is pork in it.


You could call it surprise halal.
_________________
Only in our dreams are we free. The rest of the time we need wages.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2025
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
juniper wrote:
sure. if it can easily be done.


I'm on about gen pop

edit - are you saying that it's not OK to feed prisoners porky products
, but fine to feed them halal , regardless of their personal beliefs ?

Huh? Halal isn't just about ritual slaughter, it's analogous to Kosher when describing foods. The Venn diagram of what non-Muslim people eat overlaps with Muslim halal foods.


no, it doesn't. From a pure ethical point of view 'halal' just as 'kosher' is disgusting and I refuse to eat meat from animals who were killed that way.
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
juniper wrote:
sure. if it can easily be done.


I'm on about gen pop

edit - are you saying that it's not OK to feed prisoners porky products
, but fine to feed them halal , regardless of their personal beliefs ?

Huh? Halal isn't just about ritual slaughter, it's analogous to Kosher when describing foods. The Venn diagram of what non-Muslim people eat overlaps with Muslim halal foods.


no, it doesn't. From a pure ethical point of view 'halal' just as 'kosher' is disgusting and I refuse to eat meat from animals who were killed that way.


most conventional meat is poorly treated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2025
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
juniper wrote:
sure. if it can easily be done.


I'm on about gen pop

edit - are you saying that it's not OK to feed prisoners porky products
, but fine to feed them halal , regardless of their personal beliefs ?

Huh? Halal isn't just about ritual slaughter, it's analogous to Kosher when describing foods. The Venn diagram of what non-Muslim people eat overlaps with Muslim halal foods.


no, it doesn't. From a pure ethical point of view 'halal' just as 'kosher' is disgusting and I refuse to eat meat from animals who were killed that way.


most conventional meat is poorly treated.


there is a difference between stunning an animal prior killing (like civilized people do) and 'halal' or 'kosher' cutting its throat.

The first is humane. The second barbaric.
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bogamol
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 84
Location: Detroit, Michigan - The Home of Rock and Roll

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
bogamol wrote:
goes to prison and finds God there.


What was he in for ?


unauthorized omnipresence. :P
_________________
Freedom is the oxygen of the soul. -Moshe Dayan

Juniper wrote:
I fail to see the relevance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

there is a difference between stunning an animal prior killing (like civilized people do) and 'halal' or 'kosher' cutting its throat.

The first is humane. The second barbaric.


Chickens are often kept in small pens. Cows are often fed feed not meant for consumption by cows. They are forced to have young (used for veal) so that they can give milk.

The method of killing is only one part. And no, you method is not humane. It is MORE humane than halal, but not humane.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2025
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

there is a difference between stunning an animal prior killing (like civilized people do) and 'halal' or 'kosher' cutting its throat.

The first is humane. The second barbaric.


Chickens are often kept in small pens. Cows are often fed feed not meant for consumption by cows. They are forced to have young (used for veal) so that they can give milk.

The method of killing is only one part. And no, you method is not humane. It is MORE humane than halal, but not humane.


lets see... instant lights out. Nope, not humane at all. Sure.

Btw, you are preaching to the wrong person here.. *not eating chicken* *gets meat from local butchers who buy from local farmers* *chain of trust intact*
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

lets see... instant lights out. Nope, not humane at all. Sure.

Btw, you are preaching to the wrong person here.. *not eating chicken* *gets meat from local butchers who buy from local farmers* *chain of trust intact*


hmmmm. given that you don't have to kill, there is a more humane option. just like killing a human isn't really humane if they don't want to be killed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4103
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/if-muslims-cant-eat-pork-no-one-can-eat-pork/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/if-muslims-cant-eat-pork-no-one-can-eat-pork/


Fuck that noise. I'd quit and find another job. I don't mind respecting others religious beliefs, but this dellusion of grandeur has to be checked, and not just met with PC silence.

I actually did start working at a company in Montreal that was owned by a muslim that tried to sneak in stuff like this, so I quit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2025
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

lets see... instant lights out. Nope, not humane at all. Sure.

Btw, you are preaching to the wrong person here.. *not eating chicken* *gets meat from local butchers who buy from local farmers* *chain of trust intact*


hmmmm. given that you don't have to kill, there is a more humane option. just like killing a human isn't really humane if they don't want to be killed.


luckily animals are not humans. Animals eat other animals. So I have no problem being the apex predator. Better place in the food chain than being some herbivore
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/if-muslims-cant-eat-pork-no-one-can-eat-pork/


++

Exactly
_________________
“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ~ T. McKenna
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pigeon768
l33t
l33t


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prison food shouldn't be called halal/kosher at all. It should be safe for human consumption. No other guarantees should be made.

It is not the government's job to give you want you want.
_________________
My political bias.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

lets see... instant lights out. Nope, not humane at all. Sure.

Btw, you are preaching to the wrong person here.. *not eating chicken* *gets meat from local butchers who buy from local farmers* *chain of trust intact*


hmmmm. given that you don't have to kill, there is a more humane option. just like killing a human isn't really humane if they don't want to be killed.


luckily animals are not humans. Animals eat other animals. So I have no problem being the apex predator. Better place in the food chain than being some herbivore


I never said that they are human. Just that you are willing to except a certain amount of cruelty as long as it meets your definition of humane. I am saying killing something in the most humane way possible (and most meat is not) isn't the nicest thing to do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 757
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigeon768 wrote:
Prison food shouldn't be called halal/kosher at all. It should be safe for human consumption. No other guarantees should be made.

It is not the government's job to give you want you want.


it will then cater to the majority population. Mash, bangers and mushy peas for all. white brits are happy, muslims are not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sikpuppy
n00b
n00b


Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Central Coast, NSW

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but humans are animals technically.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum