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Does the average PC user want a touchscreen interface such as Windows 8?
Yes
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
No.
90%
 90%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 20

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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Do touchscreens belong on PCs? Reply with quote

Quote:
With Windows 8, Microsoft is bringing touch-screen interaction from tablets and smartphones to traditional PCs. Many Windows 8 ultrabooks and tablet/laptop hybrids include touch, and some desktop computers do as well.

Apple, on the other hand, has steadfastly maintained that users don't want touch screens on traditional computers; it confines multi-touch gestures for its laptops and desktops to trackpads and mice.

So is touch on traditional computers the wave of the future, or another misbegotten Microsoft interface mistake, like Clippy?

Computerworld contributing editor Preston Gralla and reviews editor Barbara Krasnoff have both used touch-screen laptops running Windows 8, but they came away with very different opinions about the usefulness of this approach. Check out their arguments, then vote in our poll or weigh in with your own opinion in the comments, below.

Ready, set, fight!

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9236374/Do_touch_screens_belong_on_PCs_A_debate
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Belong and Want aren't the same. Belong? Probably. If we're to advance / improve the interface beyond keyboard & mouse, then it probably does belong. That way, it will improve. Note that belong doesn't inherently require replace. As for want, I don't know. But that isn't necessarily relevant. If they don't want it, they may not realize its potential benefit / improvement. Done well, both on the same device seem suitable (touch, kbd / mouse).
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a) I don't want Windows 8.
b) If I wanted a touch screen computer, I'd buy a tablet.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Touchscreens, by themselves, are useless on a laptop. But add a digitizer, and then the equation changes.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to be able to write my notes, not type them. Since the advent of MS Onenote I havent used a non touch screen laptop for any serious purpose. I type slow and laptop keyboards make my hands cramp up. On my work laptop which has a touch screen I find myself having an adapted typing style that involves my lefg hand dominating 85% of the keyboard whule my right holds the digitizer in pen position and ready to hit the screen to select an option or sign my name and press ctrl or alt or shift.

I wont ever buy a laptop without a touchscreen/digitizer.

I do want a tactile keyboard though and my next platform is likely to be a tablet with a lightweight detachable. Linux availability is a major factor too but the touchscreen trumps the OS imo. It is the only reason I dual boot windows.

If cost were not a factor Id replace my old CRT with a wacom screen thingy.

Upright screens get in the way. If I am engaged in a discussion where I have to take notes on a computer then if the screen is up I cant pjt it between us and therefore I cant square off with person I am talking with. It causes me to have to adapt to me computer rather thsn setting it up exactly the way I want it for how I deal with stuff and junk.
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I fail to see the relevance.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
a) I don't want Windows 8.
b) If I wanted a touch screen computer, I'd buy a tablet.

++
I want new and better keyboards like the old lisp-keyboard, with better locations of Ctrl, Alt, smaller space key. And I either want holograms, mind controlled computers (such mice exists already) or just a keyboard. Touchscreens are for children, maybe they want to be able to utter their computers too... :P The only touchscreens I accept are those on the Enterprise...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
Touchscreens, by themselves, are useless on a laptop. But add a digitizer, and then the equation changes.


Qualify everything I already said with the understanding that I agree with this.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After having used a Newton MessagePad for years (which came with a digitizer and stylus), and after having now used a finger-based tablet for a year, I have to say the whole idea of using your finger sucks hagfish. Maybe it's a good idea for certain applications (e.g., smartphone, automotive), but for a machine on which one enters and edits text or uses complex software, it's just inadequate.

I'm starting to see some decent handwriting recognition software emerge and be incorporated into applications. That's a start. I think a good tablet OS must provide excellent handwriting recognition software fully integrated into the OS (so it's available for all applications to use). Having it for one or two apps (like just for note-taking, or as some kind of a "pop-up" you can use to then paste text into other apps), is inadequate.

I want to be able to write, in my own handwriting and have it reliably recognized and converted into text. I want to be able to do this in cursive, and I want the system to learn my handwriting and constantly improve its recognition. Most of all, I don't ever want to see that bullshit "Jot" stuff again that Palm came up with. We already have an alphabet, and we don't need to adapt it to computers; we need to adapt computers to humans. Also, I want to be able to select tiny links and buttons to be able to precisely place the cursor; the current systems suck for this, and ye olde stylus worked well.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think windows 8 all be requires a touch interface built into the screen. its very frustrating to use it with just a keyboard and mouse/trackpad.

other operating systems... not so much. i like being all touchy feely, so theres that :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to smudge around on my 28" screen with my grease french fries fingers. Those cheap, replaceable keyboards were invented for a reason.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell no, and here are some reasons (anyone else can feel free to add their own):

1 - Extended usage, arm exhaustion
2 - Smudges, dirt, oils, excessive cleaning
3 - One more thing to break/troubleshoot
4 - Calibration
5 - Raised cost of a touchscreen purchase

In some scenarios I can see a benefit (point of sales systems and the like), but for home? Really? The push of this technology smacks of dumbing technology down for the sake of getting more demographics involved in computers. Which isn't a bad thing, but you would think there would be a better way without patronizing users and dumbing the interface down.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can type faster than I can write on paper, let alone how fast I can write on a touchscreen.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Hell no, and here are some reasons (anyone else can feel free to add their own):

1 - Extended usage, arm exhaustion
2 - Smudges, dirt, oils, excessive cleaning
3 - One more thing to break/troubleshoot
4 - Calibration
5 - Raised cost of a touchscreen purchase

In some scenarios I can see a benefit (point of sales systems and the like), but for home? Really? The push of this technology smacks of dumbing technology down for the sake of getting more demographics involved in computers. Which isn't a bad thing, but you would think there would be a better way without patronizing users and dumbing the interface down.

Hey, you'll be old and fuzzy-minded someday too, and when they suddenly switch to the new thought-controlled interfaces, do you want people laughing at you for saying you just want to keep using your keyboard and mouse?

I spoke with an elderly woman the other day at the public library whose son had given her a Widnows 8 machine for Christmas, and she was almost in tears because she doesn't have even the vaguest idea of how to make it work. :lol:

Windows 8 is not designed for "seniors", it's designed for simple-minded lemmings who tolerate taking a computer capable of controlling a Moon mission and having it dumbed down to a handful of buttons and being pretty much only able do one thing at a time, because they're requirements are very limited (to put it politically correct language).
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
I don't want to smudge around on my 28" screen with my grease french fries fingers. Those cheap, replaceable keyboards were invented for a reason.

What energyman said.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Windows 8 is not designed for "seniors", it's designed for simple-minded lemmings who tolerate taking a computer capable of controlling a Moon mission and having it dumbed down to a handful of buttons and being pretty much only able do one thing at a time, because they're requirements are very limited (to put it politically correct language).

:!:
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should add the caveat that there are some use cases for which Windows 8 may be well-suited, such as convertible devices intended to function as both an FFTT (fat-finger tard-tablet) and something useful.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i should add the caveat that dumping on win8 on a Gentoo forum is pretty par for the course. :lol:

i had a friend note that emerging Git on a base stage3 gentoo install had 189 deps.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
i should add the caveat that dumping on win8 on a Gentoo forum is pretty par for the course. :lol:

i had a friend note that emerging Git on a base stage3 gentoo install had 189 deps.
Only if you enable gtk. It should be less otherwise.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
we need to adapt computers to humans.

I think this is only a good idea when it doesn't add extra trouble. A bad example for adapting computers to "our" way of doing things is the problem with numbersystems. Many errors occured because of floating point operations like converting 0.1 (decimal) to it's binary representation where the number hasn't a finite representation. the bin/oct/hex way of handling numbers is superior because there is a reason for using 2, 8, 16 as bases, but the usage of the base 10 has no other reason then the very primitive "we have 10 fingers" reason. So we should adapt and do things in hex!

very often problems arises because people are to lazy to learn new things or to change their way...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
we need to adapt computers to humans.

I think this is only a good idea when it doesn't add extra trouble. A bad example for adapting computers to "our" way of doing things is the problem with numbersystems. Many errors occured because of floating point operations like converting 0.1 (decimal) to it's binary representation where the number hasn't a finite representation. the bin/oct/hex way of handling numbers is superior because there is a reason for using 2, 8, 16 as bases, but the usage of the base 10 has no other reason then the very primitive "we have 10 fingers" reason. So we should adapt and do things in hex!

very often problems arises because people are to lazy to learn new things or to change their way...


wow and now we are in stupid mode again....

True, fp are incorrect. That is why BCD was invented. If you want to be correct - there you go. Even that chip in your computer can do it. Oh joy.

And the rest - 15/16 is going to be funny in Base 16 too. Oh my. The reason 2, 8 or 16 is used in electronics is not because of 'it is more accurate' - no, they are used because they were cheaper to implement back when every gate counted.

Besides, computers are there to make life easier. If they don't, they have to be fixed. Not the other way round.
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
wow and now we are in stupid mode again....

Likewise...

Quote:
And the rest - 15/16 is going to be funny in Base 16 too. Oh my. The reason 2, 8 or 16 is used in electronics is not because of 'it is more accurate' - no, they are used because they were cheaper to implement back when every gate counted.


wow, thanks very much I didn't know that :roll: but there are also mathematical reasons and even Leibniz used the binary system often (with philosophical reasons too).. of course are all bases mathematically equivalent but the reason to use 10 can't be justified other then "10-fingers".

Quote:
Besides, computers are there to make life easier. If they don't, they have to be fixed. Not the other way round.

well what I really don't get is why guys like you even do something... you can make your life even easier and use Mac OS, why the hell are you using gentoo? Or you can get rich and then you can live from your interest, fuck the whole day, lay in the sun without ever touching a computer... I mean when your whole purpose of life is to make everything easier, why do you want to live anyway? There is a lot more in life then just make everything easy.. I would never waste even one minute with a computer when it's not about fun, exploration, understanding, etc...

Moreover it's similar to the GUI vs CLI, you make things "easier" but the system becomes more and more complex. If we would use hex/bin then it would be easier... no more 1TB HD with 931GB etc :D
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