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Qaher F313: Iran unveils home-made 'stealth' fighter
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notageek
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Qaher F313: Iran unveils home-made 'stealth' fighter Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21307208
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope they put all their best pilots in them.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I hope they put all their best pilots in them.
:!: :twisted:
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that scene in Eric the Viking where Eric puts on the cloak the girl gave him and goes into battle thinking he's invisible? :lol:
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never saw it, but I'm guessing it wasn't an invisibility cloak. Oh, was that a Python film?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was going to build a shitty looking decoy, that would be the type of thing I would unveil. Then I would have lots of really cool ones that I would unleash later.

I don't think this is the case here, however. They seemed sincere the other day when they put a monkey into space, although it seems a different one returned which is a neat trick.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
They seemed sincere the other day when they put a monkey into space, although it seems a different one returned which is a neat trick.
8O Teleportation accident.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Twilight Zone were still airing, they'd have made an episode on it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too short!
even taking into account the dodgy angle, using an image like this: http://goo.gl/FQsyI
if this is real and does actually fly and does what they hype, its only purpose will be close defence - if it does have a reduce radar signature it will serve only to draw any opposing planes inside their aerodrome (since AMRAAM's will not be effective)

with a short fuselage and thus short engine, it isn't going to have much thrust which would imply a very low service ceiling
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the image you posted, it doesn't look like a real plane at-all.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
From the image you posted, it doesn't look like a real plane at-all.

There is that.
The air intakes are also tiny, again re-affirming my statement about small engine. Likewise it looks like the pilots feet will be an inch from the outside world.

This is probably real BUT significantly overhyped (and untested). This really will be for close support in an attempt to maintain air superiority akin to a cloud of bee's around a hive... just because it would be facing a honeyBadger is a moot point.
The other view is it is a mockup of what is being "built"
To get a plane to fly is not something you can easily do. They reverse eng an F5 so they are able to produce something akin to that.
Something like this? significantly doubt it... take the F35, that is only now getting to a state that it can be reliably be flown outside Lockheeds testpilots...
Centre of gravity == centre of volume == centre of mass when it comes to aeroplanes, this looks tail heavy.

Seems more of an attempt to keep public support for the regime who are more than aware of a few big hitters nearby and the present regime was born from a popular uprising. If the powers that be can show something which the people will accept (coupled with ignorance of the full capability of any potential enemy) it might buy them more time.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard that Iran get their designs from here.
I wonder if that picture in the OP is a model?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Something like this? significantly doubt it... take the F35, that is only now getting to a state that it can be reliably be flown outside Lockheeds testpilots...
The "story" has been that the Axis of Evil nations don't care about their military and would overwhelm with numbers, not skill. So do they require the same reliability? Presumably a trained pilot is somewhat more valuable than the average piece of cannon fodder, but I'm not convinced they require the same level of reliability as do we.

BTW, thanks for the technical observations.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to their credit, at least they are trying. Which cannot be said of other quran/bible thomping midgets.
The hope is, that in due course of learning about science it takes to build one, they might discover that their holy books are no different then Lord of the Rings.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
The hope is, that in due course of learning about science it takes to build one, they might discover that their holy books are no different then Lord of the Rings.
Seems more likely they're going to defend against the deterioration of their holy books. Otherwise they wouldn't be after weaponized nukes.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naib wrote:
Something like this? significantly doubt it... take the F35, that is only now getting to a state that it can be reliably be flown outside Lockheeds testpilots...
The "story" has been that the Axis of Evil nations don't care about their military and would overwhelm with numbers, not skill. So do they require the same reliability? Presumably a trained pilot is somewhat more valuable than the average piece of cannon fodder, but I'm not convinced they require the same level of reliability as do we.

BTW, thanks for the technical observations.


not that kind of reliably - you are probably right, while the DoD/MoD call for 25years EVEN for a unit on the shelf. Iran would probably just want something up even if there are fundamental lifetime stress issues.

What I mean by reliably was about 6years ago the 1st F35 was built with care, an engineering unit which won Lockheed the F35 contract. only within the last 6-12months have they been able to reproduce that on a production level such that they can hand over an F35 to other gov'n who are part of the project.

6years to get a plane to manufacturing standards to reliably fly...

Take the 787, 2004 detailed designs existed YET it only flew in 2009 (again hand crafted engineering unit) and the mass production variant 2years later...


Now take the Saeqeh, the Iranians reverse engineered F5 with some modifications
First flight July 2004
Introduction 22 September 2007

so thats 3years from a proven design. This is a design from scratch. Now Iran have already shown they are actually quite technically competent as well has having in their possession an jet engine from that UAV they "landed" - that might explain the size of this thing since rev-eng is reasonably simple, scaling up isnt, especially with the possibility of a fan out...
Not really interested in a pissing contest as to whether their toys are better than someone elses... just stating they have shown even under sanctions they can produce stuff.

BUT even factoring in that Iranians are being whipped to design rather than cost+ project in the UK/US military actually benefiting dragging a project out, the Iranians are still looking at a good few years until something like this can fly.

The hardest part about aircraft is ensuring it flies in the environment, if this thing isn't design nor capable of any significant altitude, that will remove some of the design burden


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what it looks like me?

A Jihadi-piloted cruise missile.

Suicide bombers on steroids.

The Japanese had such a thing during WWII as an anti-ship missile.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is just filled with wikiboys
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Naib

Unfortunately that didn't help me understand what you meant by reliable. What I thought you meant was that short of mechanical failure or the like, ours don't fall out of the sky. Are you referring to the ability to reliably produce them vs. one-off prototypes?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
@Naib

Unfortunately that didn't help me understand what you meant by reliable. What I thought you meant was that short of mechanical failure or the like, ours don't fall out of the sky. Are you referring to the ability to reliably produce them vs. one-off prototypes?


yes.
1) Its one thing to have something mass-producible BUT its reliability is shite
2) its another thing to actually get the buildprocess (reliably) nailed down so that it can actually fly in the 1st place.

#1 is something the UK/US aerospace industry have and push for. - Iran probably don't give a shit about this or are able to reach anywhere near the same flight-hours.
#2 is something even the UK/US havn't been able to nail down in a timely fashion... ~5years from detailed concept to 1st flight, I would estimate every FTB aircraft would have had everything at one point pulled out before it even has had Weight on Wheels de-asserted


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Naib is an engineer who has (or does) work in the defense sector, I'm a former Army officer, pjp used to be in the Air Force, and notageek has some pretty deep knowledge about weapons systems (why I don't know, but he does).

So I guess that would pretty much leave you as a "wikiboy", I suppose, unless you've go some source of actual knowledge about this you'd like to share.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Naib: Ah, thanks. Now I understand.


@BK: Army, not AF. I was in IT, so it really provided no subject knowledge. Most of anything I don't really know comes from interest / reading. I'd certainly defer to Naib or anyone with specific topical expertise (but not someone who clearly has no knowledge and isn't even relying on a wiki -- not you, not necessarily this topic, and no I won't mention any names).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like it might make a noise and vibrate if you put 20 cents in
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we know that already.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they had put an 8-year-old child in a flight suit with a blacked-out visor, had everybody else stand farther away in the background, and took the picture from a hundred yards away, they might have fooled most people.

The Chinese at least made theirs the right size, and it could actually take off and land.

I think it's time to send the Secret Squirrels in again.
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