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philip
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: [SOLVED]Is it only me having hopeless problems with KDE PIM? Reply with quote

Since moving to KMail2 and the Semantic Desktop, several months ago, I have had the most extreeme and hard to solve issues with KDE and especially the KDE PIM apps. They all seem related to the reliance on akonadi and possibly D-Bus. Possibly also Nepomuk.

Problems typically include:

a. The PIM related applications do not launch properly (including Dolphin)
b. Mail do not show properly
c. Pure crashes and hangs

Some of my recent problems are more specifically described here:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-927654-highlight-.html
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-921470-highlight-.html
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-922490-highlight-.html

All of this renders my desktop environment almost useless. I find this extremely unusual for a Linux environment.

I have searched the web extensively, including the Gentoo Forum and the KDE bug reporting sites to find people that have overcome these problems. But I have not found any posts that have helped me to either find nor solve the root causes of my problems. I see people having the same problem. But what surprises me the most is that if many people would be affected by the same problems, there should be a revolution of complaints about KDE and extreme agony out there. But in relation to the problems it is in fact quite quiet.

Is it only me that can not solve these problems? And what is the state of KDE really?
I run the "stable" branch of Gentoo with KDE 4.8.3



Quote:
# emerge --info
Portage 2.1.10.65 (default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/kde, gcc-4.5.3, glibc-2.14.1-r3, 2.6.39-gentoo-r2 i686)
=================================================================
System uname: Linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r2-i686-AMD_Phenom-tm-_II_X6_1055T_Processor-with-gentoo-2.1
Timestamp of tree: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:15:01 +0000
app-shells/bash: 4.2_p20
dev-java/java-config: 2.1.11-r3
dev-lang/python: 2.7.3-r2, 3.2.3
dev-util/cmake: 2.8.7-r5
dev-util/pkgconfig: 0.26
sys-apps/baselayout: 2.1-r1
sys-apps/openrc: 0.9.8.4
sys-apps/sandbox: 2.5
sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.68
sys-devel/automake: 1.6.3-r1, 1.10.3, 1.11.1
sys-devel/binutils: 2.21.1-r1
sys-devel/gcc: 4.3.6-r1, 4.5.3-r2
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.6
sys-devel/libtool: 2.4-r1
sys-devel/make: 3.82-r1
sys-kernel/linux-headers: 3.1 (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc: 2.14.1-r3
Repositories: gentoo
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="x86"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="*"
CBUILD="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=k8 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/config /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt /usr/share/openvpn/easy-rsa"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/php/apache2-php5.3/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5.3/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5.3/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/language.dat.d /etc/texmf/language.def.d /etc/texmf/updmap.d /etc/texmf/web2c"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -march=k8 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FCFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-logs config-protect-if-modified distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles news parallel-fetch parse-eapi-ebuild-head protect-owned sandbox sfperms strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch"
FFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo"
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
LINGUAS="sv en_US"
MAKEOPTS="-j5"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY=""
SYNC="rsync://rsync.europe.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="3dnow X a52 aac aalib acl acpi alsa apache2 audiofile bash-completion berkdb bidi bluetooth branding bzip2 bzlib cairo cdda cdparanoia cdr cjk cleartype cli consolekit corefonts cpdflib cracklib crypt cups cxx dbus declarative dga dio divx4linux dlloader doc dri dts dv dvb dvd dvdr dvdread emacs emboss encode ethereal evo examples exif fam fbcon ffmpeg firefox flac flash font-server fontconfig foomaticdb fortran freetds ftp gd gdbm ggi gif gimp gphoto2 gpm gps gstreamer gtk handbook iconv icq imagemagick imap imlib innodb ipv6 jack java javascript jikes joystick jpeg jpeg2k kde kerberos kipi ladcca lcms ldap libg++ libnotify live lm_sensors loop-aes mad milter mms mmx mng modules mozilla mp3 mp4 mpeg mplayer msn mudflap mysql mysqli nas ncurses network nls npp nptl nsplugin nvidia ogg openal opengl openmp oscar pam pango pcre pda pdf pdflib perl phonon php plasma plotutils png policykit portaudio posix ppds pppd python qt3support qt4 quicktime readline rtc samba scanner sdl semantic-desktop session slp soap sockets sox speex spell spl sql sse ssl startup-notification svg tcpd theora tidy tiff truetype type1 udev udisks unicode upower usb v4l vcd videos vorbis webkit win32codecs wmf wxwidgets x264 x86 xcb xcomposite xface xine xinerama xml xorg xpm xprint xscreensaver xulrunner xv xvid xvmc yahoo zlib" ALSA_CARDS="cmipci" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol" APACHE2_MODULES="actions alias auth_basic auth_digest authn_anon authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache dav dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan sheets stage tables krita karbon braindump" CAMERAS="ptp2" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ubx" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-console presenter-minimizer" LINGUAS="sv en_US" PHP_TARGETS="php5-3" PYTHON_TARGETS="python3_2 python2_7" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby18 ruby19" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nouveau" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"
Unset: CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LC_ALL, PORTAGE_BUNZIP2_COMMAND, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, USE_PYTHON

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Last edited by philip on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kollin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have those problems with my kde! Did you try with a new profile ?

P.S. I run testing.
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philip
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is set to [5] default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/kde *

Code:
# eselect profile list
Available profile symlink targets:
  [1]   default/linux/x86/10.0
  [2]   default/linux/x86/10.0/selinux
  [3]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop
  [4]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/gnome
  [5]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/kde *
  [6]   default/linux/x86/10.0/developer
  [7]   default/linux/x86/10.0/server
  [8]   hardened/linux/x86
  [9]   hardened/linux/x86/selinux


is this old?
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Kollin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying a new profile in this case means either with new user or renaming/deleting your .kde4 directory :wink:
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the .kde4 directory will be re-created "fresh", possibly solving some of my issues?

Is there a risk of configuration/data loss removing it? I guess it might be safe to re-name it .kde4_BUP of the like?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philip wrote:
You mean the .kde4 directory will be re-created "fresh", possibly solving some of my issues?

Is there a risk of configuration/data loss removing it? I guess it might be safe to re-name it .kde4_BUP of the like?


I always rename it to .kde4_backup. That means that at the next log in you'll have a brand new kde, you can revert by renaming back kde4_backup to .kde4 ;)
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sitquietly
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it only me having hopeless problems with KDE PIM? Reply with quote

philip wrote:
Since moving to KMail2 and the Semantic Desktop, several months ago, I have had the most extreeme and hard to solve issues with KDE and especially the KDE PIM apps. They all seem related to the reliance on akonadi and possibly D-Bus. Possibly also Nepomuk... I find this extremely unusual for a Linux ...
Is it only me that can not solve these problems? And what is the state of KDE really?


I'm glad you're having problems running KDE 4.8.3 with semantic desktop! :oops: At least I now know that I'm not alone in concluding that the nepomuk functions are poorly coded and "not the unix way." I run kde 4.8.3 on Archlinux and compile everything on my system from source code (hence I lurk in the gentoo forums). I had a system like yours compiled with gcc 4.6.3, and now have upgraded my toolchain to use gcc 4.7. Everything on my Arch system was compiled with gcc 4.7 except grub :lol:

With both my previous "release" with the more stable toolchain and my latest release with gcc 4.7 kde is very well behaved and I love it. It's rock solid. except for nepomuk stuff. It looked like nepomuk was mostly useable at last! But then I got a few weird errors like you did. I found solutions that required removing some nepomuk files from ~/kde4 or ~/.config. And bam Kmail no longer knew anything about my mail account or showed any of my mail. I just can't accept unreliability of my mail client; as far as I'm concerned the nepomuk programmer(s) just isn't up to writing system-level code (with multi-threading) and will probably never get it right. There seems to be a race to catch the last oops when the code should have been correct but feature-incomplete from the beginning (the unix way).

I just wanted to sympathize with you. I've ordered a second SSD so that I can build up a new Arch system in parallel with my present one, this time without semantic desktop in KDE (AFAIK primarily achieved by removing the entire trees that are rooted at rasqal && virtuoso && libmysqlclient && shared-desktop-ontologies (which will remove redland/raptor/soprano/akonadi/mysql) and then starting over re-adding everything that was lost (except kdepim) starting with kdelibs with -semantic-desktop (-DWITH_SharedDesktopOntologies=OFF / -DWITH_Soprano=OFF).

If I'm wrong about the basics of building kde with -semantic-desktop I'd be grateful if someone would warn me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it only me having hopeless problems with KDE PIM? Reply with quote

philip wrote:
....Is it only me that can not solve these problems? And what is the state of KDE really?
...there should be a revolution of complaints about KDE and extreme agony out there. But in relation to the problems it is in fact quite quiet.

Code:
#eselect news list
...
[15]     2011-12-06  Stabilization of KDE 4.7.3 including KDEPIM
...
#eselect news read 15
...  Posted                    2011-12-06
...if you are using the KDEPIM application suite (i.e., akregator,
blogilo, kmail, knode, kontact, korganizer, and others) where the stable
version so far was 4.4.11.1, please be aware of the following:

The stable upgrade from KDEPIM 4.4.11.1 to KDEPIM 4.7.3 is a MAJOR upgrade
with potential for major breakage. Therefore we will *try* to keep
and support the old, so-far stable KDEPIM 4.4.11.1 as long as possible.
If you *dont* want to upgrade your KDEPIM yet but keep the old version,
please download the following file and add it into your
/etc/portage/package.mask:                                                                 
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kdepim-4.7-mask.txt                               
If you decide to upgrade, please have a look at the upgrade guide first:                   
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDEPIM-4.7_upgrade

You certainly can google for dilfridge's blog (A gentoo kde dev) where you could read that himself might wait for 4.9.+ before retesting kmail2

So no ! You are not alone and if the noise ceased, it might well be because those who were the most angry switched for thunderbird or equivalent.

As far as I am concerned, I strictly followed the advice given and go on using kmail1 under my 4.8.3
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philip
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sitquietly,

I actually thought of the same strategy as you; Buy a new SSD and install a new Gentoo from scratch (and migrate to 64 bit architecture at the same time) with -sematic-desktop.

But somewhere I read that KMail2 will not work without Nepomuk.

So the only option left seem to be a downgrade, back to Kmail1.
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Last edited by philip on Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found that since 4.0, kdepim (including kmail) has not only not improved, but regressed into a generally unusable state. I try it every few releases or so, but it's always horribly broken...usually more horribly broken with each new release. I gave up and have been happily using Thunderbird for the last year. I simply no longer believe it will ever be usable.
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sitquietly
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philip wrote:
sitquietly,

... KMail2 will not work without Nepomuk. So the only option left seem to be a downgrade, back to Kmail1.


That's right. I'm replacing kmail2 and akregator with claws-mail. Long-term, I'd bet that kmail1 will frustrate you unless you plan to stick with kde 4.8.3 for the long haul. Tough choices :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the glories of Gentoo is that KDE has a semantic-desktop USE flag that you can turn off. You find then you can't emerge kdepim-meta, but as you've learned, it's a source of woe anyway.

It really is too bad. In all the great tumult at the start of KDE4, one of the themes was the oh-so-slick idea of integrating Nepomuk and its starry-eyed promises into KDE. Give it to the KDE developers: they are a persistent lot. They got KDE4 to where it is pretty usable. I had one machine running it at version 4.4 and now by 4.8 I have it everywhere. The really ambitious idea at the start of KDE4, the thing that would be so slick and the compelling reason everyone would surely switch to KDE, was this magic software that you index your disks, sniff your emails and browser history, look at your photos, listen to your music, and keep your address list. In practice it has been big consumer of resources that also makes things less stable. Too bad it's so ill-mannered. Ah, the promise.

I say they should give it a rest. If they moved to a database setup with more modest goals to back up their PIM applications, they might have programs that actually work well. My bet is if they actually did chop Strigi the octopus and Nepomuk the cycle-stealer away from Akonadi, the PIM programs might actually be useful. Sad to say, but that seems not to be in the grand plan.

Just for grins, I emerged KDE 4.8.3 on one machine with semantic-desktop enabled. The PIM applications do look interesting, but I know to stay away from them for anything useful. It's a sad thing for an environment that otherwise works so well.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched from KMail1 to Thunderbird.

I still use KDE, but now with "-semantic-desktop" (Konqueror + fish:// protocol + KWallet works like a charm to access remote sides) - because I don't see any benefit for me for a desktop search.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I use KDE 4.8.whatever, +semantic-desktop and kdepim without problem.

Biggest gripe is that it can be a bit slow sometimes, particularly after rsyncing my maildir from my desktop to a second maildir structure on my netbook. That means there's a delay while nepomuk reindexes all the rsynced mail. But I'm happy to put up with that, as I only do it before setting off on a trip. (I guess if I did it regularly, it would be quicker, but haven't tested).

It may help that I don't use IMAP.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting that you Goverp and Kollin have KDE 4.8 with Semantic Desktop and do not experience problems. Then there is a chance that I still ave a particular problem that can be solved.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

philip wrote:
It is interesting that you Goverp and Kollin have KDE 4.8 with Semantic Desktop and do not experience problems. Then there is a chance that I still ave a particular problem that can be solved.

I forgot one regular problem I still have, which is that sometimes the desktop hangs during startup. I suspect it's related to alerts for upcoming events being launched before the desktop is ready. I bypass it by using the emergency session (or whatever it's called).

Whatever, IMHO the basic issue is kdepim's documentation - when I go looking to find out how to diagnose problems and what it should be doing, there's a whole raft of misinformation and out of date crap, and AFAIK nothing current and authoritative. Heck, does anyone know how to get a proper trace out of it?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since KDE SC 4.8.x or so, KDE PIM is in a usable state. I have built the suite with +semantic-desktop, but disabled most of it. kmail2 hasn't crashed in a long time, and while it's not the most beautiful piece of software, I can live with it now. I would have probably moved to Thunderbird before when there would have been an oxygen theme for it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Since KDE SC 4.8.x or so, KDE PIM is in a usable state.


I agree - kmail is now working fine; I don't use the nepomuk search
but instead recoll, which is excellent
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now disabled Nepomuk Semantic Desktop in the KDE System Menu. I will see if this improves the situation.

PS. I also experience total freezing of my desktop. But that is related to Nvidia drivers I believe.

See http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-919412-start-0.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can now confirm that disabling Nepomuk Semantic Desktop [ System Settings --> Workspace Appearance and Behavious --> Desktop Search --> uncheck the tick box "Enable Nepomuk Semantic Desktop" ] alleviate me from all problems. My system appears rock stable again. And I can use KMail2, without problem, except some functions like; search and recipent auto completion, distribution lists and per-contact crypto preferences.

So I conclude that the problem is really somewhere in the constellation Nepomuk/Soprano/Virtuoso/Striga and Akonadi.

I will initiate a thread in the Desktop Environment forum with the hope to systematically search for the root casue togheter with those that experience the same problem.
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Last edited by philip on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Gentoo Chat to Desktop Environments.

- John
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solution found:

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-928876-highlight-.html
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younker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have the issue of launch kdepim apps with KDE4.10rc from kde overlay. I think that kdepim depends on semantic-desktop is not a good decision. Hope some one can have a patch to totally disable it for KDEPIM apps.
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