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warrens
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Linus Torvalds - Nvidia F_ck You! Reply with quote

http://youtu.be/IVpOyKCNZYw
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm starting to wonder if this guy has issues, or maybe the "fame" went to his head.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe he needs to live on a tropical island for a while and take loads of drugs. Or maybe that's already been done and he is trying to find a more original breakdown method.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nVdia has produced solid hardware for years, and the have made drivers that work beautifully.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO the situation with Nvidia is a case of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Yes, Nvidia haven't been the most helpful in getting their hardware working under Linux, but from what I've seen, there are also areas, particularly on the kernel side of things where the Linux developers (including Linus) have hindered or even actively worked against better drivers / integration from hardware developers such as Linux.

Most of this appears to stem from the RMS-inspired "open/free or die" attitude that poisons the Linux world. They just fail to accept that within the world of business, there are some peieces of code that companies don't want in the open. In some cases companies like Nvidia may even have no real choice in the matter because they are licensing tech from other companies who aren't as "enlightened" when it comes to devleoping for Linux (from what I've made out from the vague comments at the time, this is what killed the UT3 Linux release).

Comments / attitudes like the one Linus made in this video (and it's obvious he was fully aware this was being filmed and thus would likely be released to the public) certainly do not help.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllenJB wrote:
Most of this appears to stem from the RMS-inspired "open/free or die" attitude that poisons the Linux world. They just fail to accept that within the world of business, there are some peieces of code that companies don't want in the open.

It's not a question of understanding that, imo. After all, kernel developers have even signed NDAs in order to collaborate with hardware developers. That hardly supports your contention that they "fail to accept" commercial reality.
Quote:
In some cases companies like Nvidia may even have no real choice in the matter because they are licensing tech from other companies who aren't as "enlightened" when it comes to devleoping for Linux (from what I've made out from the vague comments at the time, this is what killed the UT3 Linux release).

That's the real issue though: if you have proprietary, non-disclosable code in kernel-space, it's impossible for an end-user to debug or to fix.

And let's be honest: all this code is usually just reinventing basic maths, and using algorithms that have been around for 30 years, or freely published by academics. Patents around the technology are absurd.

Fine, so that's the milieu they operate in. It doesn't mean everyone else has to work like that, nor even go along with it.
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Comments / attitudes like the one Linus made in this video (and it's obvious he was fully aware this was being filmed and thus would likely be released to the public) certainly do not help.

Yeah, cos he has to be held up to a corporate level of behaviour.

I really don't get why individuals have to behave impeccably all the time, but we have to make allowance for corporations who have many people, and anonymity to shelter behind, until they get a PR release ready.

Personally I think it's entirely reasonable for him to be fed up of companies like Nvidia. After all, they're not doing any of this in order to make better software, or to improve our lives; it's just about the money. So yeah, fuck em if they can't take a joke ;)

Caveat: I use an nvidia binary driver, so this isn't about purity. I just think it's fair for someone to be fed up of collaborating with companies that are only trying to extract as much profit from us as possible, and will thus keep up as many obstacles as they can to true collaboration. That is their reason to exist and their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, after all. Anything else is just marketing (and the all too human willingness to believe it, or it wouldn't be used at all.)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dupe, old news: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-927064-highlight-linus+nvidia.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
And let's be honest: all this code is usually just reinventing basic maths, and using algorithms that have been around for 30 years, or freely published by academics. Patents around the technology are absurd.


That is pretty naive mode of thinking.

If that was ALL there was to it, how come not everybody can do it? Why is a sports car of today faster then sports car from 50 years ago? After all, ALL they are are lumps of metal, with some wheels and shizzle.

The reason patents exist is becose we live in competitive economical ecosystem. Sure you may argue if it is wrong, unefficient, primitive, destructive, hampering, and all that. But the fact remains that until we can figure out a way to synthetize matter and collect free solar energy, we will have competition, if nothing as an extension of physical reality.
All ideologies that attempted to pretend otherwise have failed, mainly in competition vs ideologies that took that into account. You cannot wish it away.

So while RMS may or may not have a point about this and that, and while it is obvious that monopoly and all that is not the optimal form, people still have to pay the rent. And attract females, get status etc etc. Patents are a product of our physical reality and psychology.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nvidia produces crap hardware that needs tons of workarounds in drivers - and is very very reluctant to release documentation or helping to fix the bugs.

So - he is right. Nvidia sucks.

But old dupe is old. So thread starter and Nvidia fanbois alike suck donkey balls.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
If that was ALL there was to it, how come not everybody can do it?

Because not everyone has the financial resources to integrate all these pre-existing technologies.

Prenj wrote:
Why is a sports car of today faster then sports car from 50 years ago?

Trivial incremental improvements accumulate over time. But they're still trivial. The real discoveries are made by dudes and dudettes in white lab coats paid by the tax payer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllenJB wrote:
Most of this appears to stem from the RMS-inspired "open/free or die" attitude that poisons the Linux world. They just fail to accept that within the world of business, there are some peieces of code that companies don't want in the open.

Then these companies will have to accept that they won't get much love from the linux community. They can live with that? 1% marketshare and all that? Mutual agreement I'd say.
The RMS inspired attitude isn't what poisons the linux world, it is what made the linux world. It is the fucking base all this was build upon. There are two reasons to use linux. The first is that you like the open/free idea. In that case you have nothing to complain about. The second is that you find it technically superior to it's competitors. In that case let me remind you that linux is where it is now because the devs did not listen to what other people thought linux really needed to do to become the greatest thing ever. So linux needs to drop the "open/free or die" attitude. Aha, Mhm, ok, very interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Prenj wrote:
steveL wrote:
And let's be honest: all this code is usually just reinventing basic maths, and using algorithms that have been around for 30 years, or freely published by academics. Patents around the technology are absurd.


That is pretty naive mode of thinking.

If that was ALL there was to it, how come not everybody can do it? Why is a sports car of today faster then sports car from 50 years ago?

See, thats the problem with your argument.
I mean im speaking from the german patent law, but according to that a patent can only be made on things that exceed what an expert in that field could figure out in a reasonable amount of time. So yeah, in 50 years you can achieve quite some progress without being able to write a single patent.
Patents exist because society wants to reward leaps in progress not to let bob the developer earn his new car.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
That is pretty naive mode of thinking.

No u! ;p
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If that was ALL there was to it, how come not everybody can do it?

Now that is naive. Firstly, you need a significant amount of finance to manufacture hardware competently. Finance is based on money digitised out of thin air and owed as debt by the nation that prints it, to private central bankers. After that it gets hyper-inflated by the magic of Fractional Reserve banking, which means every bank gets to digitise a load more debt.

In that context, if you're not connected to the financial spigot, you're condemned to seeing the value of your money decline every month. There are massive barriers to entry to practically every high-technology industry: patents are the most pernicious of those, especially with the modern practise of handing out patents on completely obvious ideas (to a 15-year old, let alone a serious practitioner.) An example would be the Microsoft Stacker compression patent from about 1978 I think it was, which resulted in 20 years of everyone else not having gzip in the kernel- all because a box got moved in a picture.

The rush to patent everything in software is dangerous because software is so fluid. The only comparable field is mathematics, where equations can be moved around and manipulated at will. The skill is in the manipulation of those components, and true progress requires open collaboration around a shared knowledge-base. As such, patents hinder innovation in software, and their only purpose is to serve as barriers to stop competition and new ideas from new sources. The exact opposite to their purported reason for being.
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Why is a sports car of today faster then sports car from 50 years ago? After all, ALL they are are lumps of metal, with some wheels and shizzle.

That statement is a complete non-sequitur so I'll skip it.
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The reason patents exist is becose we live in competitive economical ecosystem.

No they exist to legitimise bribery of the state to purchase a monopoly. Now that might be because we live in a "competitive" system: I'd argue it's not healthy competition, which is more akin to friendly rivalry, but rather submission to a poisonous divide-and-conquer strategy.

Keep arguing with each other, blame the poor, blame the immigrants, and like a magician (or a conman) what really happens is out of sight because of the misdirection: the money's being siphoned off at an alarming rate, but don't think about where the debt really comes from, just bleat on about how it means we have to cut everything we actually want from a government, in order to pay more money over to the bankers.
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Sure you may argue if it is wrong, unefficient, primitive, destructive, hampering, and all that. But the fact remains that until we can figure out a way to synthetize matter and collect free solar energy, we will have competition, if nothing as an extension of physical reality.

God, not that old canard again. Just because evolution favours those who can compete best for resources, it does not follow that the best way for a society to flourish is by all its members spending a vast amount of their energy trying to do each other over.

Consider this: we've only made any sort of progress as a species when we have collaborated.
We might have been collaborating in order to defend our territory, or to agress on another. But in every instance, progress has been made because of our collaboration: not our animal legacy of competition in an unfriendly world. That we collaborated in order to improve our situation was necessary: how on earth is trying to steal resources off each other necessary to progress? We rule the planet ffs, at least for a little while longer.
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All ideologies that attempted to pretend otherwise have failed, mainly in competition vs ideologies that took that into account. You cannot wish it away.

The sad thing is you cannot see that the views you espouse are ideological, and result from a long campaign of propaganda in the corporate media.

Quote:
So while RMS may or may not have a point about this and that, and while it is obvious that monopoly and all that is not the optimal form, people still have to pay the rent. And attract females, get status etc etc. Patents are a product of our physical reality and psychology.

Wow I've never heard so much conflation of totally orthogonal concepts. "This is a bad way to do things, but we have to pay the rent," is basically your position.

Sure we all have to live. The operative word there is "live" not exist: what's the point in living your whole life being a piece of shit to everyone, just so you can say you competed? Seems to me like you'd have truly lost your whole life then.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell that to the bank, comrade.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
The RMS inspired attitude isn't what poisons the linux world, it is what made the linux world. It is the fucking base all this was build upon.

I agree.

Were it not for that, we'd have a handful of commercial UNIX variants, and the free/open technology community would be limited to a few government workers and academics sharing their code for such things as analyzing population dynamics of prarie dogs under suburban encroachment and tracking the genetic dispersion of Africanized honey bees.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
.... yada yada yada ...

I agree with you about software patents; they are far too liberally granted.

I think you tend too much toward extremes in your thinking, though. Principles may be simple and absolute, but reality is a complex interaction of many of them, and seeking "best" outcomes almost always involves a balancing of many factors.

For example, (and it's just an example; I'm not going to address all your points) I think humanity is naturally both cooperative and competitive, and that both must be allowed and encouraged. Absolutists, who probably started off wanting a small change in one direction or another, end up drinking too much of their own principle-oriented Kool-Aid and turn into (or at least come across unwittingly) as extremists. Such absolutism rarely contributes to optimal outcomes and often poisons rational discourse.

For that reason, I try (and often fail, or even forget to try, but I do try) to separate, in both my thinking and my language, thought experimentation (such as logical analysis of a principle) from advocacy of real-world positions (such as "competition is bad, m'kay"). No, it's not; and neither is cooperation. Neither are they absolutely good.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+++ steveL!! the world will hopefully look back at our time of "commercial reality, money making stupid, senseless existence" like we do at KZ hitler times...

I just had an argue with my girlfriend (she studies corporate communications) about marketing etc... and one good friend of me is in the art buisness in the sense, that he sells pictures of artits..

nVidia, MS, apple etc etc are like him in the sense that they give a fuck about computers, software etc, they use it to make money like my friend uses art to make money but give a fuck about art...

so I use windows when I want to play games, and we are all imperfect, but the attitude counts.. and these money making attitude is just as bad as (or worse) then inquisition, hitler, etc... its just more hidden, more clean if you dont look precise, but under the hood more dirty than everything else..

@bonekrasher
of course, the reality is complex, so complex that we all cant even talk about it, so should we just be silent? I mean, I have studied mathematics and even in this discipline there is nothing perfect, exact etc and english and other so called natural languages are so weak, inexact that we can consider us lucky if we understand at least something in an argument... Maybe you think I am extreme, but I just cant stand it if someone defend this capitalistic thinking (nothing to do with competition, which I like!!!) its competition like polish vs germany 1939, just unfair...

worst of all, humans consider themselves intelligent, enlightment etc, and this is our world, nothing different than brutal nature.. just hidden in a fake context of peace, freedom, and other lies...

(btw, I just mention the "hitler thing" because in our society we learn since we are small children that hitler was the manifestation of evil... I dont want to be political, or against germany, or a supporter of germany... )

and bonekrasher, you obviously like southpark, consider the episode in that they criticize tolerance where the child molesters try to justify their love for children :)

and yes, all the software is an application of known (ok, maybe the NSA has some unknown superior algorithms) algorithms, and moreover about 100 years ago many people thought that number theory is "a game for people who have nothing to do", the same stupid attitude like many people have today, and now every housewive needs number theory to do their online banking etc... looks like stupidity, short sight, egoism is so powerfull that even gods cant fight it..

"I don’t want to be human! I want to see gamma rays! I want to hear X-rays! And I want to – I want to smell dark matter! Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly because I have to – I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid limiting spoken language!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
nVidia, MS, apple etc etc are like him in the sense that they give a fuck about computers, software etc, they use it to make money like my friend uses art to make money but give a fuck about art...

Nonsense. These are large, complex enterprises. The corporate entity exists for the purpose of increasing the value of its investors' shares, but the enterprise includes all the employees, many (perhaps most) of whom love computers. The same might be said for the broader economic network these enterprises have created, which includes developers, power users, hobbyists, and many others who love computers. I think your viewpoint here is artificially restricted and pretty much nothing but hyperbole.

LoTeK wrote:
so I use windows when I want to play games

Well, then you're part of the problem, so how do you feel justified in voicing such an opinion? Which is more hypocritical: the opinion you voice, or your actions?

LoTeK wrote:
and these money making attitude is just as bad as (or worse) then inquisition, hitler, etc.

There is nothing inherently destructive, malicious, or oppressive about making a profit. In general, having people efficiently provide valued, quality services and products, at prices people are willing to voluntarily pay for them, without burdening others who receive no benefit, and while creating jobs and adding value to the economy, is inherently creative, beneficial, and liberal.

The people in history who have perpetrated the kinds of crimes against humanity you point to here have universally been authoritarian collectivists (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim, etc.), all using the same kind of logic you espouse here: "we must all sacrifice and do what's in the interest of the many". Along with "I'll pull out my penis before I ejaculate," this is probably the biggest, most oft' told lie of the human story. :roll:

LoTeK wrote:
@bonekrasher

It's "BoneKracker". You don't mind if I call you "LowBrow"? :P

LoTeK wrote:
of course, the reality is complex, so complex that we all cant even talk about it, so should we just be silent?

What are you even talking about? Go back and read what I wrote, and try to let it sink in this time. Read it three times if you have to. Then come back and explain to me why you thought I was saying you should be silent.

What was that, just open your mouth and let whatever first comes to mind start pouring out, to fill the gaps, whether it makes any sense or not? :lol:

What I said was not "be silent". What I said was to avoid absolutist and extremist statements -- to "try to separate, in both your thinking and your language, thought experimentation (such as logical analysis of a principle) from advocacy of real-world positions".
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why cannot adult people accept that there is this duality to the nature of our society? Every time someone panicked and tried to promote only one side, things got worse. Sure if there is a Bill Gates, then there has to be a RMS, and vice versa. You may feel strong alignment with one of the sides of the argument as well. But to pretend that solution is that one side wins, is to declare that you dont get anything about anything, and you should just sit down and play some music until the squirrel in your head is calm again.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
just sit down and play some music until the squirrel in your head is calm again.

:lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
Fine, so that's the milieu they operate in. It doesn't mean everyone else has to work like that, nor even go along with it.
Then put up your own money to produce open hardware. Until then, you get what someone else was willing to do with their money.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Nonsense. These are large, complex enterprises. The corporate entity exists for the purpose of increasing the value of its investors' shares, but the enterprise includes all the employees, many (perhaps most) of whom love computers. The same might be said for the broader economic network these enterprises have created, which includes developers, power users, hobbyists, and many others who love computers. I think your viewpoint here is artificially restricted and pretty much nothing but hyperbole.

Definitely not, maybe there are employees who love computers but they have nothing to say. There was once a big argument between engineers and the managment about how computers should be built. the engineers wanted to build good quality stuff, in the sense that the technical decisions comes first, but the managment just want to sell computers, so economic decisions comes first. I think steve jobs for example said that he wanted to sell computers in contrast to steve wozniac who wanted to build cool systems. I think your viewpoint is extremly naive and you close your eyes, just watch behind the curtain, go to thailand where most of the hardware is produced, you know why? because you can pollute the environment there and have cheap workers (children etc).

Quote:

LoTeK wrote:
so I use windows when I want to play games

Well, then you're part of the problem, so how do you feel justified in voicing such an opinion? Which is more hypocritical: the opinion you voice, or your actions?

Oh, common, I said this to admit that I am not perfect and I play games once in a year. You use it against me like a stupid lawyer, seriously...

Quote:
There is nothing inherently destructive, malicious, or oppressive about making a profit. In general, having people efficiently provide valued, quality services and products, at prices people are willing to voluntarily pay for them, without burdening others who receive no benefit, and while creating jobs and adding value to the economy, is inherently creative, beneficial, and liberal.

The people in history who have perpetrated the kinds of crimes against humanity you point to here have universally been authoritarian collectivists (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim, etc.), all using the same kind of logic you espouse here: "we must all sacrifice and do what's in the interest of the many". Along with "I'll pull out my penis before I ejaculate," this is probably the biggest, most oft' told lie of the human story. :roll:


haha, thats definitely stupid, sorry, so making profit is not destructive? yes, for those who make the profit, but even they will have to pay when there beautiful garden will be destroyed because they destroy the environment... You dont even know what you are talking about, I have worked in a chemistry company and you would be surprised how dirty your profit business is, do you really believe this? I mean, from your posts you dont seem stupid, so I cant believe that you believe such things... Is this the american liberal propaganda? The funny thing is that many people like you dont seem to recognize that your are as extreme as those dictators that you have listed.
haha, creating jobs, yes, years ago the western society sourced out hardware manufacturing to china, thailand etc, since 2000 even programming jobs are outsourced thanks to our neoliberal stupid way of thinking. You are talking like the economy is a god and we have to sacrifice everything to please him. And I dont want to defend stalin if you didnt recognized it, and this stupid word "crimes against humanity", every terrorist talks about this, every american and every other people, goddam...

Quote:
It's "BoneKracker". You don't mind if I call you "LowBrow"? :P


haha, yes, sorry... BoneKracker of course :)

Quote:
What are you even talking about? Go back and read what I wrote, and try to let it sink in this time. Read it three times if you have to. Then come back and explain to me why you thought I was saying you should be silent.

What was that, just open your mouth and let whatever first comes to mind start pouring out, to fill the gaps, whether it makes any sense or not? :lol:

What I said was not "be silent". What I said was to avoid absolutist and extremist statements -- to "try to separate, in both your thinking and your language, thought experimentation (such as logical analysis of a principle) from advocacy of real-world positions".


I know what you have written (remember you are the one that cant read precisely :P ) I meant that of course everything what we say is not really correct because we have to simplify things that we can even talk about it, I want to say that what I am saying or what you saying can be misunderstood or can be true if one tries to understand what the other one has said and not just act like a lawyer and try to detect syntax errors... So if we wont just be silent, then we should try to understand each other (like my windows statement, that you, I believe, wanted to misunderstand to use it against me, so try to understand what I wanted to say!!)

And I dont think that you know much about logic (I do, because its one of my main interests) and what you do (and all others me inclusive) here has nothing to do with a serious logical analysis. And the real world thing, just go to thailand in a hardware factory...

Quote:
Why cannot adult people accept that there is this duality to the nature of our society? Every time someone panicked and tried to promote only one side, things got worse. Sure if there is a Bill Gates, then there has to be a RMS, and vice versa. You may feel strong alignment with one of the sides of the argument as well. But to pretend that solution is that one side wins, is to declare that you dont get anything about anything, and you should just sit down and play some music until the squirrel in your head is calm again.


I cant accept it because its wrong, again, I have talked about hitler because exactly you and BoneKRACKER wouldnt accept the nazis (of course its correct to not accept it) but so its correct to not accept this society. believe me, there are many evil things in our world, it just not that obious like the nazis and I think 70 years ago the KZ were not as obious as it is for us..

haha, I know I am a bit explosive, but thats ok..!!

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steveL wrote:
Fine, so that's the milieu they operate in. It doesn't mean everyone else has to work like that, nor even go along with it.
Then put up your own money to produce open hardware. Until then, you get what someone else was willing to do with their money.


ok, seriouly do you actually believe this? this is way more naive than the vision of utopia. How can I build hardware? with my 10 dollar capital? you cant compete with a billion dollar company, maybe thats the biggest lie of the free market propaganda. not everyone can build a company and build hardware, only very rich individuals.
Another thing is for example we are able to build razor blades that would hold an entiry century but gillette buys all the patents, so what you wanna do?
Its very similar to communism, few big companys are in charge...

and another thing, whitout linux, stallman etc this forum wouldnt even exist...
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
stuff


Sure, but you cannot expect people to align to some imaginary non-existing utopian paradigm, when their existential reality is defined by opposite paradigm. What you are asking is that they become martyrs, or at the very least dedicate their spare time to the cause.

There are examples of companies that started off as open source projects, but too many of them go "corporate" in order to survive. Or the drive to succeed and expand is too strong, because everybody who is that successful that they reach a point of choosing riches or ideology have to make a choice. And if a geek gets enough money to attract big-boobed women, the penis choses money.

There is only so many hot hippie chicks to go around, and they seem to fall for long haired musicians more often then for computer geeks. Tough karma, man. :lol:

As for why Richard Stallman is such strong ideological figure, well maybe he found a hippie chick, or maybe he doesn't fuck at all. I dunno. All I know is we cannot all live in Berkeley, I tried, but visa rules are bitch. Besides, it's expensive, hence money again.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Sure, but you cannot expect people to align to some imaginary non-existing utopian paradigm, when their existential reality is defined by opposite paradigm. What you are asking is that they become martyrs, or at the very least dedicate their spare time to the cause.


No, I often hear this existence-argument, but lets be honest, do you need holidays in hawaii every year to survive? do you need extensive food? do you need 3 cars? etc etc, many people want to become rich and so many people want to buy useless shit because they saw it in an advertising clip, I'm asking that people become a bit more self-deprecating and a bit less materialistic, thats not martyrs or utopia, its quite simple.

Quote:
There are examples of companies that started off as open source projects, but too many of them go "corporate" in order to survive. Or the drive to succeed and expand is too strong, because everybody who is that successful that they reach a point of choosing riches or ideology have to make a choice. And if a geek gets enough money to attract big-boobed women, the penis choses money.


haha, yes I have to agree with you on this point, but this just show how stupid and primitive we are. It must exist a way out of this misery and even me as a pessimist see at least some hope. I mean you can have women without loosing your soul, maybe less women of course, but enough to make the penis silent :)

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There is only so many hot hippie chicks to go around, and they seem to fall for long haired musicians more often then for computer geeks. Tough karma, man. :lol:
hehe yes, but maybe linus torvalds have women too, I don't know.. And maybe some of these long hair musicians are also idealists..

yes, but if you are rich you can at least do something like stallman (I don't know if he is rich at all). many rich people just fuck around, buy 10 cars etc... thats very poor, but to be rich doesn't mean your a bad person :) and everyone that is not starving can do at least small things... Thats why I'm so angry when people talk about survival and what they actually mean is to live like a fucking king..
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
No, I often hear this existence-argument, but lets be honest, do you need holidays in hawaii every year to survive? do you need extensive food? do you need 3 cars? etc etc, many people want to become rich and so many people want to buy useless shit because they saw it in an advertising clip, I'm asking that people become a bit more self-deprecating and a bit less materialistic, thats not martyrs or utopia, its quite simple.


No, but I need sex, and my gf would probably not be cool with me coding out of a tent.

LoTeK wrote:
haha, yes I have to agree with you on this point, but this just show how stupid and primitive we are. It must exist a way out of this misery and even me as a pessimist see at least some hope. I mean you can have women without loosing your soul, maybe less women of course, but enough to make the penis silent :)


We are not primitive, it's what we are. No more no less. And I honestly don't think you can have a women without losing your soul... :lol:

LoTeK wrote:
Thats why I'm so angry when people talk about survival and what they actually mean is to live like a fucking king..


Or die trying. :wink:
Every monkey wants to be on top on that damn tree... damn the price of not being a solitary hunter like tigers. But on the other hand tigers are going extinct, so, evolutionary traits and all that. Always stronger then altruism.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well that could be true, but it only shows that the women are evil :lol: :lol:
So maybe they have to become better persons and then we can change...

of course, we are something and I rate it as stupid, but I think most people that use their brain at least sometimes and not only their penis will agree that we could be better and especially women criticize us so much for thinking with the penis, but they are definitely not better...

and RedHat is also a heavy company that produce opensource, so it's not impossible..

Quote:
Every monkey wants to be on top on that damn tree... damn the price of not being a solitary hunter like tigers. But on the other hand tigers are going extinct, so, evolutionary traits and all that. Always stronger then altruism.


ok, then we are back at hitler again.. why not exterminate all others? if the strongest are better according to nature, why not rape a beautiful woman and code from your tent?
I really hate this evolutionary shit argument, when someone says this, I suddenly become a intelligent-design-USA-jesus-freak...
don't think evolutionary theorie is the last truth, its just a theory that is not even formalized, less sure then QM or ART or even more then any mathematical stuff...

and btw, I rather be extinct than live as a stupid dick-shooter, raper, "kill and eat the weaker"...
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