Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Vaping and E-Smoking
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Vaping and E-Smoking Reply with quote

http://vapingguides.com/blog/
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

Quote:
It's a PV or personal vaporizer, a personal inhaler to substitute for a cigarette. Battery-powered. I've switched to an alternative way of smoking and now I use this. What you can see is basically steam, it's a flavored vapor with nicotine if you want. You can get coffee flavor, chocolate, strawberry, whatever. Or tobacco of course. Also called an electronic cigarette but there's no smoke so no hazard.

As far as we know it's more or less harmless as all the ingredients - well, apart from the coffee flavor - are in medical inhalers. No danger to me or you.


That's what I got from Santa Claus for being a good guy (+ my christmas grass :-) ), so far it is working, I totally replaced cigarettes (10-15 a day), and get my nicotine dose at affordable prices. Well my plan is to scale down the nicotine to 0 and quit, and that will be the tricky part I think, but as long as I am getting the right amount of nicotine I am happy with it.
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16106
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaping and E-Smoking Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
I totally replaced cigarettes (10-15 a day), and get my nicotine dose at affordable prices. Well my plan is to scale down the nicotine to 0 and quit, and that will be the tricky part I think, but as long as I am getting the right amount of nicotine I am happy with it.
Congratulations. From what I've heard from various friends and co-workers, the chemical addiction is "easy" to kick, it's the physical addiction which is difficult. Good luck!
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaping and E-Smoking Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
erm67 wrote:
I totally replaced cigarettes (10-15 a day), and get my nicotine dose at affordable prices. Well my plan is to scale down the nicotine to 0 and quit, and that will be the tricky part I think, but as long as I am getting the right amount of nicotine I am happy with it.
Congratulations. From what I've heard from various friends and co-workers, the chemical addiction is "easy" to kick, it's the physical addiction which is difficult. Good luck!


They biggest problem is friends that smoke, I usually end up smoking first passively and than light one ....
Hopefully it is less dangerous than real tobacco.
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
petrjanda
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: Brno, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally bought this vaporizer last year http://silversurfervap.com/index.php

Used it for tobacco and grass. Slowly winded me self off nicotine and don't vape tobacco now at all.
_________________
There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stopped tobacco cold turkey almost six months ago. Successful so far.
_________________
I am not young enough to know everything.
- Oscar Wilde
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
I personally bought this vaporizer last year http://silversurfervap.com/index.php

Used it for tobacco and grass. Slowly winded me self off nicotine and don't vape tobacco now at all.


Different kind of vaporizer .... mine is legal (for the moment) almost everywhere:

http://observer.com/2012/10/puff-the-magic-cigarette-new-yorkers-vaping-up-a-storm-with-e-cigs/
Quote:
Johnny Depp has switched. So have Kate Moss, Leonardo DiCaprio, Bradley Cooper, Robert Pattinson, Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan. Lady Gaga goes both ways, and it’s been reported (though unconfirmed) that Ryan Seacrest might be in the closet about his preference. Then there was that infamous moment when Katherine Heigl actually did it on Letterman, “I bet I’m freaking y’all out right now!” she told her stunned host. “Someone better call the P.C. police!”


Actually replaces tobacco smoke with smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution (with water and nicotine).
And probably it is not a way to quit smoking but a way to keep inhaling nicotine without the risks involved with tobacco (or less risks) ...
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2026
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so lets see - that 'mixture' or 'fluid' you are using is made by unknown parties in China and completely unregulated - what could go wrong? We are not talking about baby formula or toys....
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
petrjanda
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: Brno, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
so lets see - that 'mixture' or 'fluid' you are using is made by unknown parties in China and completely unregulated - what could go wrong? We are not talking about baby formula or toys....


That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it.
_________________
There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16106
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution
Isn't that anti-freeze?
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sikpuppy
n00b
n00b


Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Central Coast, NSW

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
erm67 wrote:
smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution
Isn't that anti-freeze?

Ethylene glycol is the older antifreeze so propylene glycol is presumably chemically similar. People who are die drinking it tend to perish from liver failure. It tastes sweet so it would be an idea way to poison a drunk or someone who likes syrupy soft drinks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
pjp wrote:
erm67 wrote:
smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution
Isn't that anti-freeze?

Ethylene glycol is the older antifreeze so propylene glycol is presumably chemically similar. People who are die drinking it tend to perish from liver failure. It tastes sweet so it would be an idea way to poison a drunk or someone who likes syrupy soft drinks.

People have been known to poison animals, most notably cats, with that stuff.
_________________
I am not young enough to know everything.
- Oscar Wilde
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sikpuppy
n00b
n00b


Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Central Coast, NSW

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
People have been known to poison animals, most notably cats, with that stuff.

Probably a better way to go than internal bleeding from rat poison.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just quit smoking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just start eating pills and small paper squares in front of "squares".
_________________
Joe Biden wrote:
1987, when the skirts were short, the brews were cold, and you couldn’t walk 2 feet without stepping into some grade-A tang.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:

That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it.
Tobacco IS carcinogenic, no need to add other shit to get the effect :-)

energyman76b wrote:
so lets see - that 'mixture' or 'fluid' you are using is made by unknown parties in China and completely unregulated - what could go wrong? We are not talking about baby formula or toys....


Not Chineese, mine is made in Italy (since 2007), but there are lots of companies that produce and sell them in the EU and US. In italy liquids that contains tobacco extracts (carcinogenic) are illegal like most chinese liquids....

sikpuppy wrote:
pjp wrote:
erm67 wrote:
smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution
Isn't that anti-freeze?

Ethylene glycol is the older antifreeze so propylene glycol is presumably chemically similar. People who are die drinking it tend to perish from liver failure. It tastes sweet so it would be an idea way to poison a drunk or someone who likes syrupy soft drinks.


Not toxic, is methabolized like alcool, Big Tobacco companies put it in tobacco as well to make it 'smoke' better:-)

Quote:
Propylene glycol is considered Generally Recognized As Safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, and it is used as an humectant (E1520), solvent, and preservative in food and for tobacco products.


There have been lots of studies recently, and it compares favorably with tobacco, the toxicity of nicotine is the same, but without all the toxic (and carcinogenic and mutagenic) components of tobacco... Only long term effects on health are unknown, but short term well are studied.

Basically the alternatives to keep having nicotine are:
smoke tobacco that is universally known as carcinogenic
smoke propylene glycol added with nicotine that in the last 5-6 years did not show carcinogenicity :-)

Of course quitting is the better solution but did not worked so far.
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
petrjanda
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: Brno, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
petrjanda wrote:

That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it.
Tobacco IS carcinogenic, no need to add other shit to get the effect :-)


Correct me if im wrong, but tobacco is carcinogenic when smoked, but vaping doesn't combust the material so it shouldn't be carcinogenic, right?
_________________
There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
erm67 wrote:
petrjanda wrote:

That was always my concern too. I don't know whats in the liquid. I was buying organic tobacco for my vaporizer so I knew it was just tobacco without other shit in it.
Tobacco IS carcinogenic, no need to add other shit to get the effect :-)


Correct me if im wrong, but tobacco is carcinogenic when smoked, but vaping doesn't combust the material so it shouldn't be carcinogenic, right?


Tobacco chewers get cancer, tobacco is always carcinogenic .....


BTW. regarding the other kind of vaporizer, weren't you flying choppers? Here pilots have the hairs tested for drugs twice a year ... a friend of mine had to completely quit or lose the licence ...
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clad in Sky
l33t
l33t


Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 778
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What erm said. You can get cancer from chewing tobacco. The really nasty stuff is in the smoke, though.
Nicotine is very toxic as well, but not carcinogenic.
_________________
Kali Ma
Now it's autumn of the aeons
Dance with your sword
Now it's time for the harvest
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
petrjanda
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 1557
Location: Brno, Czech Republic

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:

BTW. regarding the other kind of vaporizer, weren't you flying choppers? Here pilots have the hairs tested for drugs twice a year ... a friend of mine had to completely quit or lose the licence ...


I don't have a job, I'm not flying, so I don't care right now.
_________________
There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2026
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is no proven connection between snuff tobacco and cancer. Just saying.
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/smokeless

Quote:

Are there harmful chemicals in smokeless tobacco?

Yes. There is no safe form of tobacco. At least 28 chemicals in smokeless tobacco have been found to cause cancer (1). The most harmful chemicals in smokeless tobacco are tobacco-specific nitrosamines, which are formed during the growing, curing, fermenting, and aging of tobacco. The level of tobacco-specific nitrosamines varies by product. Scientists have found that the nitrosamine level is directly related to the risk of cancer.

In addition to a variety of nitrosamines, other cancer-causing substances in smokeless tobacco include polonium–210 (a radioactive element found in tobacco fertilizer) and polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (also known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) (1).


Does smokeless tobacco cause cancer?

Yes. Smokeless tobacco causes oral cancer, esophageal cancer, and pancreatic cancer (1).


Does smokeless tobacco cause other diseases?

Yes. Using smokeless tobacco may also cause heart disease, gum disease, and oral lesions other than cancer, such as leukoplakia (precancerous white patches in the mouth) (1).

_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2026
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.snuffstuff.ch/schnupftabak_gesundheit_de.cfm

Quote:

Der Konsum von Schnupftabak allein stellt kein nachweisbares Erkrankungsrisiko dar. Lediglich die Kombination mit dem Rauchen von Tabak ergibt ein nachweisbares Erkrankungsrisiko.


Quote:

when snuff tobacco, water-extracted snuff tobacco or snuff tobacco enriched with its own
aqueous extract was applied to a surgically created oral canal. However, the increase in
tumour incidence did not achieve statistical significance. In addition, snuff tobacco was
tested for carcinogenicity in rats by topical administration in a surgically-created oral
canal alone or in combination with herpes simplex virus type 1 infection. Squamous-cell
carcinomas of the oral cavity were observed in the group that received both treatments,
but this result was not statistically significant.
Rats given tobacco extracts by gavage showed a statistically non-significantly
increased incidence of forestomach papillomas and lung adenomas, and rats on a vitamin


not statistically significant.

so yeah, it is harmless. Btw, second quote? From WHO:
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/recentpub/mono89.pdf

IARC Monographs on the Evaluation of
Carcinogenic Risks to Humans
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second quote is actually interesting:

Quote:
3.1 Tobacco
3.1.1 Oral administration
(a)
Mouse
Groups [numbers unspecified] of male Swiss mice, 6–8 weeks of age, were adminis-
tered a tobacco extract (ethanol extract from 50 g tobacco diluted in 10 mL distilled
water) from a commercially available Indian chewing tobacco at a dilution of 1:25 or 1:50
[actual dose unspecified] by oral intubation for 15–20 months. A further group of mice
was fed a diet that contained an extract of 10 g tobacco per 5 kg diet for up to 25 months.
A group of 20 mice received distilled water only by intubation and served as controls.
Administration of the 1:25 dilution was terminated at 18 weeks because of high mortality.
Tumour incidences at 15–20 months were 0/4, 8/15 and 4/10 in the control, 1:50 dilution
and 1:25 dilution groups, respectively. At 21–25 months, 1/20 controls and 8/10 animals
fed tobacco extract in the diet had developed tumours
. The types of tumour observed were
lung adenocarcinoma or hepatocellular carcinoma (Bhide et al., 1984b). [The Working
Group noted the incomplete reporting of the distribution of different types of neoplasm.]


Quote:
Mouse
Groups of 80 male strain A mice, 3 months of age, were exposed by inhalation to
powdered tobacco leaf on alternate days for 30 months or served as untreated controls. The
incidence of lung tumours (six alveologenic carcinomas, 35 squamous-cell carcinomas and
three ‘malignant adenomas’), leukaemia and hepatocellular carcinoma in animals surviving
to 30 months was: 12/75 [p < 0.001; Fisher’s exact test] and 1/80, 11/75 [p < 0.01; Fisher’s
exact test] and 2/80 and 3/75 and 0/80 in the treated and control groups, respectively
(Hamazaki & Murao, 1969). [The Working Group noted that, while the incidence of lung
tumours and leukaemia in treated animals was significantly increased, the incidence of lung
and liver tumours in the untreated mice was unusually low.]


Basically you cited the only experiment without cancers cases in the entire monography ....
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dr.Willy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 333
Location: NRW, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
erm67 wrote:
smoke produced by a propylene glycol solution
Isn't that anti-freeze?

I don't think adding anti-freeze to a neurotixin makes things any worse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
energyman76b
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2026
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
The second quote is actually interesting:

Quote:
3.1 Tobacco
3.1.1 Oral administration
(a)
Mouse
Groups [numbers unspecified] of male Swiss mice, 6–8 weeks of age, were adminis-
tered a tobacco extract (ethanol extract from 50 g tobacco diluted in 10 mL distilled
water) from a commercially available Indian chewing tobacco at a dilution of 1:25 or 1:50
[actual dose unspecified] by oral intubation for 15–20 months. A further group of mice
was fed a diet that contained an extract of 10 g tobacco per 5 kg diet for up to 25 months.
A group of 20 mice received distilled water only by intubation and served as controls.
Administration of the 1:25 dilution was terminated at 18 weeks because of high mortality.
Tumour incidences at 15–20 months were 0/4, 8/15 and 4/10 in the control, 1:50 dilution
and 1:25 dilution groups, respectively. At 21–25 months, 1/20 controls and 8/10 animals
fed tobacco extract in the diet had developed tumours
. The types of tumour observed were
lung adenocarcinoma or hepatocellular carcinoma (Bhide et al., 1984b). [The Working
Group noted the incomplete reporting of the distribution of different types of neoplasm.]


Quote:
Mouse
Groups of 80 male strain A mice, 3 months of age, were exposed by inhalation to
powdered tobacco leaf on alternate days for 30 months or served as untreated controls. The
incidence of lung tumours (six alveologenic carcinomas, 35 squamous-cell carcinomas and
three ‘malignant adenomas’), leukaemia and hepatocellular carcinoma in animals surviving
to 30 months was: 12/75 [p < 0.001; Fisher’s exact test] and 1/80, 11/75 [p < 0.01; Fisher’s
exact test] and 2/80 and 3/75 and 0/80 in the treated and control groups, respectively
(Hamazaki & Murao, 1969). [The Working Group noted that, while the incidence of lung
tumours and leukaemia in treated animals was significantly increased, the incidence of lung
and liver tumours in the untreated mice was unusually low.]


Basically you cited the only experiment without cancers cases in the entire monography ....


oh look, you are unable to read! I was talking about SNUFF.
_________________
AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum