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Old School
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: France needs gun laws Reply with quote

Five people were shot dead in Paris.

France needs to ban guns. That way no one need die ever again.

TFA
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claim: Banning guns eliminates all guns deaths, even assassinations. <-------------------- not asserted by anyone.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Claim: Banning guns eliminates all guns deaths, even assassinations. <-------------------- not asserted by anyone.

Oh. Then we must be concerned with only white people dying. Let the Blacks and Hispanics (76% of all gun crime in the US) fend for themselves.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Claim: Banning guns eliminates all guns deaths, even assassinations. <-------------------- not asserted by anyone.

Oh, now you want to be logical? :lol: :roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
Claim: Banning guns eliminates all guns deaths, even assassinations. <-------------------- not asserted by anyone.

Oh. Then we must be concerned with only white people dying. Let the Blacks and Hispanics (76% of all gun crime in the US) fend for themselves.


1/3 US = the murder rate in france. forgive them if they don't take your advice re murder rates. isn't that a bit like greece lecturing germany on fiscal matters?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
Claim: Banning guns eliminates all guns deaths, even assassinations. <-------------------- not asserted by anyone.

Oh. Then we must be concerned with only white people dying. Let the Blacks and Hispanics (76% of all gun crime in the US) fend for themselves.


1/3 US = the murder rate in france. forgive them if they don't take your advice re murder rates. isn't that a bit like greece lecturing germany on fiscal matters?

I'm not advising France to do anything (as nothing is what the French do best), I am just shining the light on the absurdity of the gun control debate. Criminals will break the law. They do not care that guns are illegal to possess. That is why we call them criminals.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Claim: Banning guns eliminates all guns deaths, even assassinations. <-------------------- not asserted by anyone.
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/


++

Chairs, windows and hammers kill more people than guns in the USA.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
pjp wrote:
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/


++

Chairs, windows and hammers kill more people than guns in the USA.

Don't forget toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet-related_injuries_and_deaths
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:

I'm not advising France to do anything (as nothing is what the French do best), I am just shining the light on the absurdity of the gun control debate. Criminals will break the law. They do not care that guns are illegal to possess. That is why we call them criminals.


Criminals will break the law. So, here is a question. Should we make it easy for them to get a gun?

Remember that spate of knife fights in London 2-3 years ago? Picture that in Chicago. Yes, those youths no doubt found it much easier to get a knife than gun.

By making it easy for law abiding citizens to get guns, you make it easy for everyone. Criminals and loons included. Yes, a determined assassin will probably find a way to get a gun , even n North Korea. But a teenage punk decides it's too hard to get a gun in London.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
Muso wrote:
pjp wrote:
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/


++

Chairs, windows and hammers kill more people than guns in the USA.

Don't forget toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet-related_injuries_and_deaths

Automobiles, stairs, showers and bathtubs are the most dangerous objects on Earth (if you don't count abortion doctors, who take 1,600,000 lives a year in the U.S. alone).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
(if you don't count abortion doctors,.....).

I don't.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
Muso wrote:
pjp wrote:
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/


++

Chairs, windows and hammers kill more people than guns in the USA.

Don't forget toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet-related_injuries_and_deaths

Automobiles, stairs, showers and bathtubs are the most dangerous objects on Earth (if you don't count abortion doctors, who take 1,600,000 lives a year in the U.S. alone).


it's a toss up. 30,000 automobile deaths by cars too.

Yet, somehow, I can think of another use for cars other than running people over. stairs too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
Muso wrote:
pjp wrote:
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/


++

Chairs, windows and hammers kill more people than guns in the USA.

Don't forget toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet-related_injuries_and_deaths

Automobiles, stairs, showers and bathtubs are the most dangerous objects on Earth (if you don't count abortion doctors, who take 1,600,000 lives a year in the U.S. alone).


it's a toss up. 30,000 automobile deaths by cars too.

Yet, somehow, I can think of another use for cars other than running people over. stairs too.

And you cannot think of any use of a firearm other than murdering someone?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I think that a global economic meltdown could be a good thing. After all you city people and liberals starve to death, there will be that much more for those of us that are somewhat self sufficient.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do all terrorist scum get shot in Paris?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guns don't kill people. Idiots do. That is the reason why 99.9% of the population in the USA should be banned from ever getting a chance of killing babies. I think this is what the NRA gun nuts of the USA are trying not to say.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ban alcohol, not cars.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
sikpuppy wrote:
Muso wrote:
pjp wrote:
Killing is illegal, yet a gun ban won't prevent it, so let's take away liberty of law abiding citizens. Fascism FTW \o/


++

Chairs, windows and hammers kill more people than guns in the USA.

Don't forget toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet-related_injuries_and_deaths

Automobiles, stairs, showers and bathtubs are the most dangerous objects on Earth (if you don't count abortion doctors, who take 1,600,000 lives a year in the U.S. alone).


it's a toss up. 30,000 automobile deaths by cars too.

Yet, somehow, I can think of another use for cars other than running people over. stairs too.

And you cannot think of any use of a firearm other than murdering someone?


isn't the primary use a gun to kill? A cars primary use is to get you from point A to point B. But actually, in my utopia, people could still have shotguns and hunting rifles and hand guns at their gun club.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Sometimes I think that a global economic meltdown could be a good thing. After all you city people and liberals starve to death, there will be that much more for those of us that are somewhat self sufficient.


Don't know about the US, but urban dwellers in Canada and the UK subsidize the rest.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Why do all terrorist scum get shot in Paris?

Where does one find scum?

In a cesspool.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Criminals will break the law. So, here is a question. Should we make it easy for them to get a gun?

Remember that spate of knife fights in London 2-3 years ago? Picture that in Chicago. Yes, those youths no doubt found it much easier to get a knife than gun.

By making it easy for law abiding citizens to get guns, you make it easy for everyone. Criminals and loons included. Yes, a determined assassin will probably find a way to get a gun , even n North Korea. But a teenage punk decides it's too hard to get a gun in London.

Exactly. Afaic Britain is much better off without guns. I've seen people selling guns out the back of cars in Chicago, and I've walked round downtown Detroit and seen the dough-boy and his backup a few feet away. Fuck that for a way of life: most "educated" USians are scared: scared even to roll the window down in their own cities. They drive in from the burbs, do their work, and rush back out as fast as possible. Typically they're hyped on loads of caffeine as well. It really is a weird society, practically manic in its outlook.

AFAIC they show the world how not to do it. They bang on about liberty, which means the freedom to exploit and enslave, all the while denying a woman the right to control her own body. And yet the majority of the people there are really decent, and living in stress and two weeks away from poverty, working two jobs and never seeing their kids, just so the "wealth-generators" can fly around the world feeling special about their kleptocracy, which is all funded by money printed out of thin air and on the books as debt to private institutions. That's where all this debt is coming from: the crazy banking system which means that a nation owes interest on its own currency to a private central bank, that is not owned by the taxpayers who finance the whole shebang.

Then that gets exponentially inflated via the Fractional Reserve banking system, whereby all the other banks then make up more money out of thin air, and lend it out again as debt with interest. And of course, they lend it mostly to themselves at basically zero interest, to finance speculation and buy up more distressed assets. Cos don't forget: all that money that's been digitised out thin air has to be paid back at interest, but there's only the money that was printed to do it with. So bankruptcy is inherent (since how can you pay 1.15 million back on 1 million when there's only 1 million printed? Printing more doesn't solve it, as that has interest attached too.)

Meanwhile, that hyper-inflation is hidden from the population behind the "RPI" -- an index that directors don't follow at all: they expect their pay to go up in line with the amount of money that's being printed, since that's the only true measure of inflation. That's why corporate executive pay went up so substantially in the last couple of years (and of course, more is hidden in pension payments, share options and "bonuses" and so on, that don't count as headline salary.) And don't forget, now we have the "CPI" as if housing doesn't have to be paid for. They really have zero shame whatsoever: chutzpah-cubed.

It puts the Weimar Republic to shame.
Quote:
isn't the primary use a gun to kill? A cars primary use is to get you from point A to point B. But actually, in my utopia, people could still have shotguns and hunting rifles and hand guns at their gun club.

Indeed. The "constitutional right to bear arms" was actually about that originally: local militia with weapons in safe storage, such that central Government did not have the overwhelming force of arms, but States did, and then only via the local populace. It was never about any idiot being able to walk into a store and get an assault-rifle to make himself feel less inadequate, so long as he came from the "right" background.

Funnily enough, corporations only had a 10-year charter originally. They had no constitutional rights: the people who worked there, or the individuals who ran it, did. But the corporation itself, since it is effectively a license to print money ("issue bonds"), had to be transparent, with no rights against search etc. It took a couple of hundred years, but now they are "immortal entities" with rights, and recently got the law changed so that they even have the same standing as an individual human being.

There's a very prescient quote by Thomas Jefferson that shows what regime we now live under:
Jefferson wrote:
I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteveL wrote:
All the while denying a woman the right to control her own body


I hate to break it to you, but unlike some enlightened Eurofag countries, the killing of the unborn is legal in the US.

Quote:
The "constitutional right to bear arms" was actually about that originally: local militia with weapons in safe storage It was never about any idiot being able to walk into a store and get an assault-rifle to make himself feel less inadequate


It is obvious you have never read the Federalist Papers or other contemporary works. And I think you meant more adequate.

"The said Constitution be never construed .to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Samuel Adams, during Massachusetts's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788).

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." (Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 1848)

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:45

I could go on and on, but I think I made my point.

Quote:
A bunch of more drivel


I will let you return to your bottle. You are obviously pretty fucked up.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, comes from reading all that poison spewing from your mind, and living in a world ruled by the people who brainwashed you.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
Yeah, comes from reading all that poison spewing from your mind, and living in a world ruled by the people who brainwashed you.

The intervention was painful for me.
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