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disi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

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Younger Americans die earlier and live in poorer health than their counterparts in other developed countries, with far higher rates of death from guns, car accidents and drug addiction, according to a new analysis of health and longevity in the United States.


I wonder why so many US-Americans suffer diabetes? Isn't that an inherited problem?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/health/americans-under-50-fare-poorly-on-health-measures-new-report-says.html?_r=0

This is bad:
Quote:
The United States has the highest infant mortality rate among these countries, and its young people have the highest rates of sexually transmitted diseases, teen pregnancy and deaths from car crashes. Americans lose more years of life before age 50 to alcohol and drug abuse than people in any of the other countries.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.


On SPON they state, the 'corrected' median of these goverments spending on health care is at $3200 and the US spent $8000 per citizen. where does the money go?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

disi wrote:
On SPON they state, the 'corrected' median of these goverments spending on health care is at $3200 and the US spent $8000 per citizen. where does the money go?

If I was mischievous I would say military "health". But I am not, so I won't.


Last edited by sikpuppy on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

disi wrote:
This is bad:
Quote:
The United States has the highest infant mortality rate among these countries, and its young people have the highest rates of sexually transmitted diseases, teen pregnancy and deaths from car crashes. Americans lose more years of life before age 50 to alcohol and drug abuse than people in any of the other countries.

so? I don't necessarily agree this is bad.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

disi wrote:

I wonder why so many US-Americans suffer diabetes? Isn't that an inherited problem?


Diabetes is on the rise in the EU as well

Quote:
Diabetes is increasing rapidly in every part of the world,
to the extent that it has now assumed epidemic proportions.
Estimates suggest that more than 6% of the population aged
20-79 years in EU member states, or 30 million people, had
diabetes in 2011, with 42% of diabetic adults aged less than
60 years (IDF, 2011; Whiting et al., 2011). If left unchecked, the
number of people with diabetes in EU member states will
reach more than 35 million in less than 20 years.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

disi wrote:
I wonder why so many US-Americans suffer diabetes? Isn't that an inherited problem?

Late onset (type II) is more to do with lifestyle, and that's the most common type AFAIK.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.


why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


++Highlander
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.
The less worse off are likely to have good health care but a lack of "acceptance" for taking care of yourself, so I don't see that as meaningful differentiating factor. What are the recommendations for flu? Don't go to work at the first sign of a symptom? LOL. Yeah, right. And yes, I'm well aware that most part-time employees won't even think of it due to not getting paid / no vacation.

So, yeah, if I have no choice but to go to the emergency room, I won't be at work, and I'll have insurance coverage. But that doesn't really affect STDs or pregnancy (condoms aren't that expensive, and abstinence is free). Though it could I suppose lead to crashes and alcohol / drug abuse. But that isn't a socialized / not-socialized issue.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


++Highlander

Actually it comes from a Neil Young song (the one that goes, "My my, hey hey...".

As to these statistics, the U.S. has a problem with ethnic violence (gangs) in its inner cities. Lately, we've also got an obesity epidemic.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.


why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.

Why are lefties so dead set on destroying humanity by nullifying natural selection? "Social Darwinism" isn't some conspiracy; it's nature.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diabetes? "Have a Coke!"

You get about 20 sugar cubes' worth of high fructose corn syrup in just one can ... along with enough phosphoric acid to leach the bones right out of your body. (Phosphorus binds with calcium.) It's a drink that actually makes you thirsty, so you grab another can.

Proud to say I haven't drunk one in thirty years. Pissed that I was addicted to 'em for twenty before that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Actually it comes from a Neil Young song (the one that goes, "My my, hey hey...".
Thanks. I knew it predated Highlander, but I couldn't recall the source.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundialsvc4 wrote:
Diabetes? "Have a Coke!"

You get about 20 sugar cubes' worth of high fructose corn syrup in just one can ... along with enough phosphoric acid to leach the bones right out of your body. (Phosphorus binds with calcium.) It's a drink that actually makes you thirsty, so you grab another can.

Proud to say I haven't drunk one in thirty years. Pissed that I was addicted to 'em for twenty before that.


I usually drink in a day:
1xlarge mug of coffee at work
1x2l bottle of water during the day

sometimes:
4-6xPint of beer :D

p.s. I am not a sweet guy, those sugar drinks just 'cement' your mouth...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.


why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.

Why are lefties so dead set on destroying humanity by nullifying natural selection? "Social Darwinism" isn't some conspiracy; it's nature.


so are high maternal mortality, low life expectancy and disease. I don't like those things either. Call me crazy, but I think one of the benefits of society is that those things are largely kept at bay.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
juniper wrote:
why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.
The less worse off are likely to have good health care but a lack of "acceptance" for taking care of yourself, so I don't see that as meaningful differentiating factor. What are the recommendations for flu? Don't go to work at the first sign of a symptom? LOL. Yeah, right. And yes, I'm well aware that most part-time employees won't even think of it due to not getting paid / no vacation.

So, yeah, if I have no choice but to go to the emergency room, I won't be at work, and I'll have insurance coverage. But that doesn't really affect STDs or pregnancy (condoms aren't that expensive, and abstinence is free). Though it could I suppose lead to crashes and alcohol / drug abuse. But that isn't a socialized / not-socialized issue.


why do people in france/england/anywhere have a better acceptance of taking care of themselves?

Here, you learn to. When we had a baby, they send a health visitor to your house daily for two weeks to check up on things. Just to give advice, answer any questions you might have etc. Lots of stuff I didn't know, so that was great. If your only interaction with health care is in an emergency form, you are unlikely to have the tools and knowledge to keep yourself healthy.

Teenage pregnancy is probably a social issue. STDs are likely a social issue as well as a healthcare/knowledge issue (I have met adults who didn't know where babies come from). alcohol and drug abuse sounds mixed too. I don't see how you can divorce those things from easy access to healthcare.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.


why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.

Why are lefties so dead set on destroying humanity by nullifying natural selection? "Social Darwinism" isn't some conspiracy; it's nature.


so are high maternal mortality, low life expectancy and disease. I don't like those things either. Call me crazy, but I think one of the benefits of society is that those things are largely kept at bay.


Those things are kept at bay by education, which doesn't work on the urban or rural poor, or coercion, which doesn't work on the rural or urban poor.
Or maybe some other things.
But lifestyle choices among the underclass is a part of the problem.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

Darth Marley wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
pjp wrote:
This is not news. "It's better to burn out than to fade away."


As for the causes, are STDs, teen pregnancy, car crashes, drugs & alcohol, etc. related to a lack of socialized health care? No.


why are you so sure? the worse off are likely to have health problems and likely not to have good care.

Why are lefties so dead set on destroying humanity by nullifying natural selection? "Social Darwinism" isn't some conspiracy; it's nature.


so are high maternal mortality, low life expectancy and disease. I don't like those things either. Call me crazy, but I think one of the benefits of society is that those things are largely kept at bay.


Those things are kept at bay by education, which doesn't work on the urban or rural poor, or coercion, which doesn't work on the rural or urban poor.
Or maybe some other things.
But lifestyle choices among the underclass is a part of the problem.

++
There's a certain point where individual responsibility must count for something. There's a certain point where we cross the threshold from "equal opportunity" to "egalitarianism". If mankind begins to live by a philosophy of absolute egalitarianism, we might as well just go ahead and nuke ourselves off the planet now and get it over with, because we'll be like the Idiocracy movie within a couple generations. People bandy about the term "social justice" as though it means the latter (absolute egalitarianism), rather than the former (equal opportunity, or as it was once put, "the pursuit of happiness"), and I think that's a misguided and ultimately devastating line of reasoning.

Meanwhile, there are others who are absolutely opposed to providing any help for the unfortunate or incapable, and twist the thinking I've outlined above to suit themselves, arguing against any and all attempts to provide people that equal opportunity. That's not right either. People need to be honest about what they want and what they mean, and ease up on the populist bullshit and propaganda, because we've reached a point where there are more people spewing bullshit than talking sense, and the average person is clueless.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundialsvc4 wrote:
Diabetes? "Have a Coke!"

You get about 20 sugar cubes' worth of high fructose corn syrup in just one can ... along with enough phosphoric acid to leach the bones right out of your body. (Phosphorus binds with calcium.) It's a drink that actually makes you thirsty, so you grab another can.

Proud to say I haven't drunk one in thirty years. Pissed that I was addicted to 'em for twenty before that.

Snopes says that's B.S.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp

Of course, I raise the objection because I drink about a six-pack of diet coke a day. :lol:

I suppose it's one of those "all things in moderation" things.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

Snopes says that's B.S.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/acid.asp

Yes. It's the sugar content alone that's worrying, second only to the caffeine content which isn't particularly high.

Red Bull style drinks are more worrying, small cans with more caffeine than a Turkish long black. Poor old kidneys.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: US -> live fast die young... Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
why do people in france/england/anywhere have a better acceptance of taking care of themselves?
They're already unemployed, so they don't fear losing their job? :D j/k On a more serious but related note, maybe it has to do with productivity expectations. For me personally, I'm rarely sick. Of course, being overweight & sedentary is a different issue, but I guess that's the cost of productivity.

juniper wrote:
Here, you learn to. When we had a baby, they send a health visitor to your house daily for two weeks to check up on things. Just to give advice, answer any questions you might have etc. Lots of stuff I didn't know, so that was great.
Sounds expensive and very optional. No thanks.

juniper wrote:
Teenage pregnancy is probably a social issue. STDs are likely a social issue as well as a healthcare/knowledge issue (I have met adults who didn't know where babies come from). alcohol and drug abuse sounds mixed too. I don't see how you can divorce those things from easy access to healthcare.
I was in agreement with you in observing they were probably social issues. But I was surprised when you thought they couldn't be divorced from healthcare. I don't see how they can be joined. (Well, anything could theoretically be combined, not that it would make sense to do so).
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

USA - 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
UK - 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
USA - 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
UK - 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people.


are the definitions of violent crime the same? seems like it's important to find out, otherwise those numbers are pretty meaningless.

For this reason, those stats are hard to compare without that verification. The only really reliable statistic for comparison is homicide, as the definition is the same in both cases.

we of course don't need to look those up for comparison, do we? In fact, the US homicide rate is approximately the same factor bigger than the UK's rate as healthcare spending. I conjecture a link.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
USA - 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
UK - 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people.


are the definitions of violent crime the same? seems like it's important to find out, otherwise those numbers are pretty meaningless.

For this reason, those stats are hard to compare without that verification. The only really reliable statistic for comparison is homicide, as the definition is the same in both cases.

we of course don't need to look those up for comparison, do we? In fact, the US homicide rate is approximately the same factor bigger than the UK's rate as healthcare spending. I conjecture a link.


Talking about definition, on /. someone stated that countries have different meaning of death-birth. While the US might count every alive new born immediately, other countries wait up to two weeks before the child is declared alive. Of course no one knows if that was taking care of in the statistic...
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3375731&cid=42556869
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