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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: 27 dead at primary school Reply with quote

24 year old shoots up a primary school

what a fucking nightmare.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing will change.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox News states that four weapons have been recovered. They cite the shooter as having a .223 rifle, which is what the M16, M4 and AR-15 takes. A parent talking said his child described hearing "falling cans."

So far we have:

1. Assault rifle
2. Submachine gun

I wonder what the other two weapons were.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/
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LD
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that eventually this will proabbly degrade into a shouting match about gun control in general. But before that happens I got to wonder. It's one thing to have a huge arsenal, assault rifles, ammo, and magazines that can hold ungodly amounts of ammunition.

What happens inside a persons mind or soul that makes going into an elementary school and using ANY level of fire power on kids sound like anything close to something to do? How the Hell does this end up sounding like anything other then an atrocity in the mind of the shooter? It's one thing to have a gun, or any weapon, and using it in self defense or comision of a crime against other ARMED persons.

Where in the name of all that is holy, good, and pure does someone get the thought of using anything on kids this young?!
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any sane person will ever be capable of answering that question. Whatever it is that drives their insanity, the immediate availability of guns enables them, and 'semi-'automatic weapons take the death toll to the max - not much mass-murdering going on with slow to operate hunting rifles.

Speaking of craziness - notice how the south is considerably more gun violent?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 27 dead at primary school Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
24 year old shoots up a primary school

what a fucking nightmare.


Why do I feel numb?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
I don't think any sane person will ever be capable of answering that question. Whatever it is that drives their insanity, the immediate availability of guns enables them, and 'semi-'automatic weapons take the death toll to the max - not much mass-murdering going on with slow to operate hunting rifles.

Speaking of craziness - notice how the south is considerably more gun violent?


it happened in connecticut, not the south.

yeah, i don't think you can answer that question. clearly, the guy was insane, no sane person would do that. we will always have crazies in our society. stricter punishment clearly wouldn't help in this case.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
genstorm wrote:
I don't think any sane person will ever be capable of answering that question. Whatever it is that drives their insanity, the immediate availability of guns enables them, and 'semi-'automatic weapons take the death toll to the max - not much mass-murdering going on with slow to operate hunting rifles.

Speaking of craziness - notice how the south is considerably more gun violent?


it happened in connecticut, not the south.

yeah, i don't think you can answer that question. clearly, the guy was insane, no sane person would do that. we will always have crazies in our society. stricter punishment clearly wouldn't help in this case.


Nice being so specific. =)
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LD
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
I don't think any sane person will ever be capable of answering that question. Whatever it is that drives their insanity, the immediate availability of guns enables them, and 'semi-'automatic weapons take the death toll to the max - not much mass-murdering going on with slow to operate hunting rifles.

Speaking of craziness - notice how the south is considerably more gun violent?


I'm going to avoid the gun debate on this as that's going to be handled by so many people over the next several days. I don't exactly disagree with the idea of banning civilian ownership of assault weapons or high cap. magazines myself. though I worry about the idea of a day when we end up needing our own western spring in Europe and the US.

I just don't get how someone can go that fraking mental.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
it happened in connecticut, not the south.

I'm perfectly aware of that.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the paradox I see coming: People wanting guns for protection.
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Place your bets on whether this guy was abused as a child.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to know why his mother didn't see this coming. He killed his father as well, from what I understand.

EDIT: I can't easily comprehend this being the third major killing spree in a year.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is gun control the right discussion to be having? What other issues does this bring up?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LD wrote:
Is gun control the right discussion to be having? What other issues does this bring up?

I think that prior identification of who this person was would have helped greatly.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
LD wrote:
Is gun control the right discussion to be having? What other issues does this bring up?

I think that prior identification of who this person was would have helped greatly.

Anybody know where we can find three prescient mutants to put into a water tank?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
LD wrote:
Is gun control the right discussion to be having? What other issues does this bring up?

I think that prior identification of who this person was would have helped greatly.


Definatly a case to be made for revisitong state run insane asylums
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather punish crazy people than have my freedoms infringed upon. I wonder what the repercussions of this are.
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'd rather punish crazy people than have my freedoms infringed upon. I wonder what the repercussions of this are.

Wait, what? Punish crazy people? For what? What about their rights to freedom-non-infringement? I don't think I'm getting the point your making right now...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Place your bets on whether this guy was abused as a child.


I'm going to guess raging atheist. *runs*
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
Speaking of craziness - notice how the south is considerably more gun violent?

this happened in connecticut, which leans closer to gun control than gun rights. the movie theatre massacre happened in colorado, which is also in the same boat.

when was the last massacre in florida, utah, vermont, or alaska (states with the most pro-gun rights)? the worst you'll probably find is the 1986 miami shootout when 2 serial bank robbers went toe to toe with the FBI and lost. everything else is at best, general violence.

a lot of the stats from these studies don't add up. a basic public records request will show you that FL CCW holders commit less crime than your average police officer.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More details have come in about the weaponry used:

1. Bushmaster M4 (assault rifle).
2. Sig Sauer (pistol).
3. Glock (pistol).
4. ???

The "falling cans" sound could be #2 and #3. The "booms" that the witnesses described would be #1.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mass shootings list is funny. it excludes a lot of asian and middle east massacres.

it also focuses only on mass shootings, as if stopping all shootings will magically stop all mass violence... because no one in history has ever used home-made explosives in the oklahoma city, atlanta, madrid, asia or the middle east. bombings happen in the middle east so often now that US news has stopped reporting most of them because those death tolls don't even get pageviews.

even as US gun laws have softened since the 1990s assault weapons ban expired, crime has continued to fall.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
I'd rather punish crazy people than have my freedoms infringed upon. I wonder what the repercussions of this are.

Wait, what? Punish crazy people? For what? What about their rights to freedom-non-infringement? I don't think I'm getting the point your making right now...


What about the responsibility to ensure the safety of the average citizen from those who, due to mental disease or defect, are a danger to themselves and others?
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