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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1487 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | Yeah, but just to try out emacs? Too much effort. |
Complaining that emacs pulls in too much stuff is like complaining that water is too wet. Clearly you are not cut out for emacs.  |
Actually, it doesn't have a whole lot of dependencies; it's that they apparently have the "graphical" version of it enabled by default, and there are a shitpile of optional add-ons. It looks like it can become the "one program you use for everything", which might be interesting to play with, but potentially time-consuming and disappointing, and I'm not sure I want to join a religion like that.  _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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Shadow Skill Veteran

Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 1023
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Dunno what the big deal is Emacs has at least two terminal emulators built in. It even has a mode to kill buffers that have been open for a long time. There is even a hack floating around that embeds a webkit browser inside emacs. _________________ Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.
"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it." |
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notageek Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Four pages later BK hasn't installed emacs yet. Nevermind even using it.
I'm going to report this thread and ask BK to be permabanned just for that. _________________ What looks like a cat, flies like a bat, brays like a donkey, and plays like a monkey? |
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NotQuiteSane Guru


Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 470 Location: Klamath Falls, Jefferson, USA, North America, Midgarth
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Shadow Skill wrote: | | Dunno what the big deal is Emacs has at least two terminal emulators built in. It even has a mode to kill buffers that have been open for a long time. There is even a hack floating around that embeds a webkit browser inside emacs. |
wouldn't supprise me if emacs could run X windows
NQS _________________ These opinions are mine, mine I say! Piss off and get your own.
As I see it -- An irregular blog, Improved with new location
To delete French language packs from system use 'sudo rm -fr /' |
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sikpuppy n00b


Joined: 12 Jun 2012 Posts: 23 Location: Central Coast, NSW
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | Four pages later BK hasn't installed emacs yet. Nevermind even using it.
I'm going to report this thread and ask BK to be permabanned just for that. |
He just wants the experience of being homosexual without having to engage in actual buggery. |
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aidanjt Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1101 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Shadow Skill wrote: | | Dunno what the big deal is Emacs has at least two terminal emulators built in. It even has a mode to kill buffers that have been open for a long time. There is even a hack floating around that embeds a webkit browser inside emacs. |
That's only part of its problems. _________________
| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| sikpuppy wrote: | | notageek wrote: | Four pages later BK hasn't installed emacs yet. Nevermind even using it.
I'm going to report this thread and ask BK to be permabanned just for that. |
He just wants the experience of being homosexual without having to engage in actual buggery. | :lol: _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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Crooksey Apprentice


Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 236 Location: Vatican City
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: |
You wouldn't. My point was that somebody who describes themselves as a "Python developer" obviously considers that their language of choice, and since it is also (like Java) a flexible, multi-purpose, multi-paradigm interpreted language in which several IDEs have been written, why would one not choose to use an IDE written in one's own language of choice, which thereby enables one to have a higher level of mastery and control of it (for example, creating one's own customizations, plugin-ins, and contributions to it).
This is not a portable concept to all languages. One would not demand an IDE written in BASH for the purposes of writing BASH scripts, because BASH is not a suitable language for the creation of an IDE. The idea is ludicrous and an illogical appeal to ridicule.
An intelligent answer might be, "I might, except those IDEs suck, don't have the features I need." A strawman suggesting that my argument was that people should always use an IDE written in the language they are using (which I did not say or even imply) is, on the other hand, not an intelligent argument. |
Im a developer, I get given stupid deadlines and almost impossible tasks for my timeframe, I need a program that helps me code, test, debug and integrate into my VCS.
Aptana does all three for me (really well) I honestly couldn't give a sausage what language it was written in, because I a, never going to extend the project, it works fine as is. You could tell me it was written by someone who's now sleeping with my ex, it helps me bring in the ££ and makes my life a lot easier.
Afaik there are no decent python IDEs out there (open source) |
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wildhorse Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 148 Location: Estados Unidos De América
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | I've avoided it all this time. I've used vi. I use a tiling window manager. I just feel like my GNU/Linux experience cannot be complete without at least trying Emacs. No bullshit X version: the real thing.
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge? | Welcome to the 20th century. When will you catch up with the presence? |
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Muso l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Posts: 655 Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I prefer Emacs for large files. Emacs was an arbitrary choice of editors for me when I made the decision. I realized that I needed my fingers to "know" a proper editor, and Emacs was my choice. I've never understood the hate towards Emacs from the VI users, and vice versa. For small files, nano's fine. _________________ If I had a dollar for every time capitalism was blamed for the problems caused by government, I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap |
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smartass Tux's lil' helper

Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 142 Location: right behind you ... (you did turn around, didn't you?)
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| woddfellow2 wrote: | | smartass wrote: | | woddfellow2 wrote: | A warning: If you want to use the graphical Emacs with the daemon/emacsclient as many do, I recommend compiling it with the lucid toolkit instead of GTK, due to a bug in GTK that makes it unreliable.
My /etc/portage/package.use contains the following:
| Code: | | app-editors/emacs -gtk |
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Never had a problem with USE=gtk emacs. Could you elaborate please? I use gtk, not gtk3. |
Due to a bug that has been in GTK since 2002 or earlier, Emacs in daemon mode will die if X dies with a graphical frame open. |
Oh that. I never considered it being a GTK bug, because when you run rxvt-unicode in daemon mode and X dies, the urxvtc instances get killed which kills urxvtd too. I always thought it was an Xlib thing, that killing an X process propagates the kill, oddly enough.
Anyways, if X dies (which is quite rare) it's simple enough just to run 'urxvtd' and 'rc' which starts up the daemons again. If necessary, I can recover the session within emacs.
BK, considering size, it may appear bloaty, I agree. | Code: | equery size emacs vim vim-core
* app-editors/emacs-24.2
Total files : 3960
Total size : 128.18 MiB
* app-editors/vim-7.3.409
Total files : 15
Total size : 1.91 MiB
* app-editors/vim-core-7.3.409 #because I have USE="-minimal" vim
Total files : 1686
Total size : 21.98 MiB
| This comes from mainly Elisp libraries that could make a full blown DE and IDE.
However, after | Code: | | emerge USE="gzip-el" emacs | the bundled Elisp libs are zipped, cutting it down to | Code: | equery s emacs
* app-editors/emacs-24.2
Total files : 3960
Total size : 93.17 MiB
| No big difference though.
So if you're looking for just an editor, emacs will appear bloated to you. On the other hand, some of us enjoy having an agenda planner integrated in a project documentation file, exporting it into LaTeX and mailing it to someone, all that just with a few keystrokes. Matter of preference. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1487 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | sikpuppy wrote: | | notageek wrote: | Four pages later BK hasn't installed emacs yet. Nevermind even using it.
I'm going to report this thread and ask BK to be permabanned just for that. |
He just wants the experience of being homosexual without having to engage in actual buggery. |  |
 _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1487 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. |
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| wildhorse wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | I've avoided it all this time. I've used vi. I use a tiling window manager. I just feel like my GNU/Linux experience cannot be complete without at least trying Emacs. No bullshit X version: the real thing.
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge? | Welcome to the 20th century. When will you catch up with the presence? |
The presence of what? Is that what you call yourself, like Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino? Wild "The Presence" Horse?  _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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Shadow Skill Veteran

Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 1023
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| aidanjt wrote: | | Shadow Skill wrote: | | Dunno what the big deal is Emacs has at least two terminal emulators built in. It even has a mode to kill buffers that have been open for a long time. There is even a hack floating around that embeds a webkit browser inside emacs. |
That's only part of its problems. | Meh it comes in handy on systems with not so great terminals like windows or on laptops where screen space is limited and switching to and fro is cumbersome at best. Neither of these things get in the way when I do not use them. _________________ Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.
"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it." |
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marens Apprentice


Joined: 05 Aug 2004 Posts: 172
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Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr.Willy wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | It looks like a nice too, and I like Eclipse too. But, you still haven't answered the question: why would a Python developer be using an IDE written in Java rather than one written in Python? |
Why the fuck would you have to use an IDE written in the language of your project?
I mean, that must've been the kind of thinking that lead to the development of apache ant: "Guys, we need something for our build scripts" "Uhm, how 'bout make?" "We can't use that, it's not written in Java" |
It was easier to write a new buildtool than writing portable make files. _________________ If English was good enough for Jesus, then it's good enough for you! |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | wildhorse wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | I've avoided it all this time. I've used vi. I use a tiling window manager. I just feel like my GNU/Linux experience cannot be complete without at least trying Emacs. No bullshit X version: the real thing.
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge? | Welcome to the 20th century. When will you catch up with the presence? |
The presence of what? Is that what you call yourself, like Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino? Wild "The Presence" Horse?  |  _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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sikpuppy n00b


Joined: 12 Jun 2012 Posts: 23 Location: Central Coast, NSW
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | wildhorse wrote: | | When will you catch up with the presence? |
The presence of what? Is that what you call yourself, like Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino? Wild "The Presence" Horse?  |
It's "Jack Presence" which can be built into the kernel. It detects if someone knows "Jack" or needs "Jack on/off" on a real time basis. It doesn't enlarge the kernel by much, but can taint keyboard, display and digital insertion drivers. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1487 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Ok I installed it, with all USE flags disabled for now. I kind of like it, although it may be more than I want in an editor. I'm trying to give it a fair shake and not just reject it because it's unfamiliar. It certainly has son nice features, and it's quite refined, as terminal applications go. I have just scratched the surface at this point. _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I really disliked ctrl-2ndkey for everything. I think I gave it maybe 5 minutes. _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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juniper l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 756 Location: EU
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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I think I said earlier why I switched from emacs to vim.
I forgot one other reason. They came out with new fonts about 15 years after everyone else. They were using Type 1 fonts until only a few years ago. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1487 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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After a few days of immersion, I have to say it's pretty awesome. This is no "editor", though; this is an IDE with a unique method and degree of integration.
The latest version has its own integrated package (i.e. extension) manager, and if you add a couple of popular repositories you have thousands of extensions to choose from, some of which are very cool. While I installed it stripped of all USE flags and am using it in a terminal emulator, my observation thus far is that it doesn't use much RAM, considering the package size (which bundles a lot of optional extensions, not loaded by default.
It's got the most complete, well-organized, and easily accessible documentation of any application I've used, which is important since the default configuration alone offers about 2,000 commands. It even has a vi-mode with adjustable level of vi emulation.
My take at this point is that Emacs would be far more useful than vim for serious, deeply-involved, time consuming project work, but it is probably overkill on overkill for others.
I have to say it's much nicer than I expected. Going to play around with it until I feel like I have a good idea of its pluses and minuses. _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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smartass Tux's lil' helper

Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 142 Location: right behind you ... (you did turn around, didn't you?)
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Enlightenment, at last! |
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LiamOS n00b


Joined: 06 Jun 2012 Posts: 56 Location: Kerry/Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | After a few days of immersion, I have to say it's pretty awesome. This is no "editor", though; this is an IDE with a unique method and degree of integration.
The latest version has its own integrated package (i.e. extension) manager, and if you add a couple of popular repositories you have thousands of extensions to choose from, some of which are very cool. While I installed it stripped of all USE flags and am using it in a terminal emulator, my observation thus far is that it doesn't use much RAM, considering the package size (which bundles a lot of optional extensions, not loaded by default.
It's got the most complete, well-organized, and easily accessible documentation of any application I've used, which is important since the default configuration alone offers about 2,000 commands. It even has a vi-mode with adjustable level of vi emulation.
My take at this point is that Emacs would be far more useful than vim for serious, deeply-involved, time consuming project work, but it is probably overkill on overkill for others.
I have to say it's much nicer than I expected. Going to play around with it until I feel like I have a good idea of its pluses and minuses. |
Well.... Crap.
Now I'm going to have to try emacs.  _________________ CFLAGS=" -O999999" |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | My take at this point is that Emacs would be far more useful than vim for serious, deeply-involved, time consuming project work | For coding at least, I've seen people do some pretty damned amazing stuff. I'm not saying emacs can't. Are you referring to more than just coding? For word processing type work, I've not seen anyone use vi effectively. _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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dmitchell Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003 Posts: 1154 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | For coding at least, I've seen people do some pretty damned amazing stuff. I'm not saying emacs can't. Are you referring to more than just coding? For word processing type work, I've not seen anyone use vi effectively. |
LaTeX _________________ Your argument is invalid. |
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