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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
I remember the days of devfs and things just working. Today we've got udev and its regular hiccups. Yay, progress! And userspace is always better. Yay.

The winning combo for me was udev and HAL. Both were new and freshly implemented. I thought to myself, "This is it! The next-generation Linux desktop is here!"

HAL was okish until you had to actually set X server settings. They should have had xorg in the state it is today, back then, and forgo that clusterfuck entirely.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the source is stand-alone again, thanks to ryao and the Gentoo eudev project team:
Code:
ceres ~ # emerge -s eudev
Searching...   
[ Results for search key : eudev ]
[ Applications found : 1 ]

*  sys-fs/eudev [ Masked ]
      Latest version available: 9999
      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]
      Size of files: 0 kB
      Homepage:      https://github.com/gentoo/udev-ng
      Description:   Linux dynamic and persistent device naming support (aka userspace devfs)
      License:       LGPL-2.1 MIT GPL-2
- John
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mrsteven
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I remember, the Linux devfs had some unfixable design flaws (race-conditions and more), so it was replaced with udev. And in fact, I never had a serious problem with udev, it just did its job (and the current stable version 171-r9 still does). Okay, I have to add that I don't use a separate /usr partition.

HAL had a configuration syntax that was just horrible. Ironically, it has been deprecated, because it "does a lot of things but none of them particular well". Now what about systemd? :roll:

To me, udisks and upower seem to be a better, more modular approach. However, these need polkit, whose maintainers had the funny idea to use a (turing-) complete programming language for configuration. Having a complete JavaScript interpreter just for parsing the configuration of a security-critical component of the system seems to be questionable, at least.
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Unix philosophy: "Do one thing and do it well."
systemd: "Do everything and do it wrong."
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dread the day that sys-auth/polkit-0.104 is leaving the tree.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hal's config files aren't much worse than udev's config files. Which change a lot. Real fun.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsteven wrote:
I now have a Raspberry Pi running Arch Linux and guess what is the biggest memory hog on it? The fscking systemd-journal with currently 21MB resident size. 21MB wasted for something I won't ever need! And no, Poettering does not want me to turn it off. Perfect example of what happens if you break Unix philosophy ("do one thing and do it well").

PS: Yes, I do know that 21MB is not much for a normal machine, but for the Pi it is.


New record-breaking memory usage after 14 days:
htop output:

  CPU[||                             3.9%]     Tasks: 20, 0 thr, 49 kthr; 1 running
  Mem[|||||||||||||||||||||||||||38/482MB]     Load average: 0.00 0.01 0.05
  Swp[                              0/0MB]     Uptime: 14 days, 22:24:50

  PID USER      PRI  NI  VIRT   RES   SHR S CPU% MEM%   TIME+  Command
   62 root       20   0  578M 30432 30176 S  0.0  6.2  0:08.62 /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-jou
[...]


RSS about 29 MB? For a (wannabe-)logger?! WTF?! 8O What kind of insane shit is this?! Guess I'll have to set up a gentoo cross toolchain to get rid of the systemd insanity...
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait! That memory usage might indicate that it has become sentient! You might be about to destroy a new inelligent life form!
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mrsteven
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
You might be about to destroy a new inelligent life form!

A blown fuse has already done so today... Anyway, there were days 32 MB RAM were enough to run a complete operating system - oh wait, systemd almost is one. It lacks a good editor, though. Maybe it's time to include vim?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it is getting a web server.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://plus.google.com/112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq#112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/169082
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
https://plus.google.com/112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq#112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq
:lol: :lol: :lol: That's a good one
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
https://plus.google.com/112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq#112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/169082

So..... much...... rage..... must.... contain.... :evil:
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juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
https://plus.google.com/112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq#112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/169082

So..... much...... rage..... must.... contain.... :evil:


the rage you are feeling is not yours. It is emanating from my post infecting you. A pale shadow of the emotions I suffer from.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
aidanjt wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
https://plus.google.com/112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq#112984388701261818181/posts/HjDjMe6QBZq

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/169082

So..... much...... rage..... must.... contain.... :evil:

the rage you are feeling is not yours. It is emanating from my post infecting you. A pale shadow of the emotions I suffer from.

If they were all together in the same building, it'd make a ripe target for making the world a better place.
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juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is shocking that Technical Decision Makers within Red Hat support this. I get the junior staff member who just got a hammer and thinks everything is a nail. But people who know what they're doing? Wow. Sure makes me want to entrust my enterprise to RHEL / RH.
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