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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: No more fucking Twinkies Reply with quote

Hostess, maker of the evil Twinkie (responsible for more than one American's big gut or ass), has filed for bankruptcy protection in Federal court. Twinkie aficionados have submitted a petition for Obama to help them.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeS6DvyLScE
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it amusing the union employees who refused to bargain and are now unemployed.

I bought some non-Twinkie Hostess this AM. Will probably buy more later.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why should they work when they can take unemployment?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I find it amusing the union employees who refused to bargain and are now unemployed.

If by bargain you mean bend over and take it up the ass...

If hostess didn't try to swoop in and slash pay and benefits and ignore the strike action, it could have been avoided. You can't do anything about stupid ignorant management.

But ultimately this will do America's blood-sugar level some good. So, oh well.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
If hostess didn't try to swoop in and slash pay and benefits and ignore the strike action, it could have been avoided. You can't do anything about stupid ignorant management.

this is a pretty funny joke. you're joking right?

the contract the Baker's union rejected, frankly wasn't that bad. it was a lot better then no job at all. I don't think any of the union's actual members wanted this to come to pass but the union forced it through and look at the result. the clear sign to me is the way the Baker's union voted on the strike, which was via voice in front of everyone ( aka PEER PRESSURE ). I think it was fixed and that a secret ballet would've spoken towards the true opinion of the union's members.

if there is no damn money to give out, what else to they, and you, expect? unions are a product of days-gone-by in 'merica ( i wouldn't make that blanket statement about other countries though. america's industrial revolution style work environments are over ).
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marens
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those twinkies were way too dangerous anyway http://youtu.be/UhOb8q9CI-E
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Union management guys.

"We took a strong stand against those capitalist dogs. Sorry it cost you your job. Be sure and vote union."
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Great management management guys.

"We took a strong stand against those Union scum. Sorry it cost you your job. Be sure and vote capitalist."

It still sounds dumb no matter which way you swing it.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
Old School wrote:
Great management management guys.

"We took a strong stand against those Union scum. Sorry it cost you your job. Be sure and vote capitalist."

It still sounds dumb no matter which way you swing it.


Indeed. Win-Lose mentality always loses in the end. Even tho you think you're winning.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some investment group will probably swoop in, by up the IP and equipment and they'll be churning out ho-ho's in no time with their new non-union workforce.

I work in a company that is union-free. I've hired and worked with a lot of ex-union folks and it all sounds so restrictive, to both the employer and the employee. I would have never lasted as a tradesman in any of those companies because I would have been fired for too many grievances against me for crossing trades. Half my success is the fact that I never had a problem crossing over and learning new disciplines as the situation warranted. I would have been completely pigeon-holed in that kind of environment. And the whole seniority over competence bit... fuck, that. I want to work in a place where performance is rewarded not told to wait it's turn in line behind some lazy ass who doesn't know what the fuck their doing.

The one thing that I have to say about unions is that they keep my employer on the straight and narrow. They go out of their way to make sure they take good care of employees for fear that they'll organize and end up holding the company back. (which they would).
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Old School
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
Old School wrote:
Great management management guys.

"We took a strong stand against those Union scum. Sorry it cost you your job. Be sure and vote capitalist."

It still sounds dumb no matter which way you swing it.

I hate to break it to you, but it ain't the 1930s any longer. Times and situations change. Unions (in the US) have become fascist and very undemocratic.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
If by bargain you mean bend over and take it up the ass...

If hostess didn't try to swoop in and slash pay and benefits and ignore the strike action, it could have been avoided.
Stomping your feet and holding your breath until the other person learns their lesson isn't effective. The people out of jobs are the only losers in this situation (consumers too, but likely the most popular items will return). They were given warning, called the bluff, then lost.

And yes, incompetent management is what led to bankruptcy ~8 years ago, and again earlier this year. That doesn't change the end result of which group is unemployed. But like you said, oh well. At least they still have their union card.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pay yer deeews, eh?
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, tell me all about how those evil commie union types are just keeping the poor misunderstood management types down.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
Please, tell me all about how those evil commie union types are just keeping the poor misunderstood management types down.


Quote:
I keep hearing how this strike forced them to liquidate. How we should just take it and be glad to have a job. What an unpatriotic view point. The reason these jobs provided me with a middle class opportunity is because people like my father in law and his father fought for my Union rights. I received that pay and those benefits because previous Union members fought for them. I won't sell them, or my coworkers, out.


Right, so you can pay for your kid's Christmas this year.... with pride and patriotism.

So I guess nothing is better than something.... oh wait.... it isn't.
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great line in one of the comments: "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one".
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It still boggles my mind.

A good working example of a similar situation is me and my job. I'm in a very high-stress job where I think I could be paid more. Do I join a union? No. I got my resume updated, grabbed a few extra certifications, work on my interviewing skills, and now I'm applying for another job after 6 years of working at this one and getting my experience. If this job wants to pay me more, I'll stay, but I'm not going to strong-arm them into paying me more or else I'm going to act like an ass-hat on the front steps of the business, that's just childish.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
It still boggles my mind.

A good working example of a similar situation is me and my job. I'm in a very high-stress job where I think I could be paid more. Do I join a union? No. I got my resume updated, grabbed a few extra certifications, work on my interviewing skills, and now I'm applying for another job after 6 years of working at this one and getting my experience. If this job wants to pay me more, I'll stay, but I'm not going to strong-arm them into paying me more or else I'm going to act like an ass-hat on the front steps of the business, that's just childish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc

They're employers, not supreme beings. You have every right to press them for better working conditions.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
Bigun wrote:
It still boggles my mind.

A good working example of a similar situation is me and my job. I'm in a very high-stress job where I think I could be paid more. Do I join a union? No. I got my resume updated, grabbed a few extra certifications, work on my interviewing skills, and now I'm applying for another job after 6 years of working at this one and getting my experience. If this job wants to pay me more, I'll stay, but I'm not going to strong-arm them into paying me more or else I'm going to act like an ass-hat on the front steps of the business, that's just childish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc

They're employers, not supreme beings. You have every right to press them for better working conditions.


The video clip is disingenuous, the kid has no choice but to be in an orphanage.

And, your right, they have a right to ask, the company has a right to say no, and the employee has a right to find another job.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Great line in one of the comments: "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one".

But unions are people?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
The video clip is disingenuous, the kid has no choice but to be in an orphanage.

But the response of the rich orphanage managers is exactly the same.

Bigun wrote:
And, your right, they have a right to ask, the company has a right to say no, and the employee has a right to find another job.

And every employee in the company has the right to tell the company that work will stop as long as they keep saying MOREEEEEEE?!?!! to reasonable demands. And in this case, it's more like NOT ACCEPTING FAR LESS?!?!?! Because the union has already given many concessions, and it's members had their pensions stolen.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hostess is a very mismanaged company. Not only did they triple the CEO's salary, they increased most executives pay. They then turn around to the worker ants and cut their pay and benefits. It was well obvious they couldn't afford it.

Typical CEO: go in, kill the company, take all the cash, and move on to the next sucker.

I'm on the fence as far as unions go, and I don't think the union was in the wrong here. Hostess has been mismanaged in the past too, this is not new...
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mismanaged or not, all those people are now out of a job. The union gambled their jobs and lost.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Mismanaged or not, all those people are now out of a job. The union gambled their jobs and lost.

The company was being imploded by mismanagement, so all their jobs were already gone.
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