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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: dwb minimalist browser Reply with quote

I have been using 'xxxterm' (being renamed 'xombrero'). Trying a different one called 'dwb', which so far seems very cool.

It is similarly webkit-based, keyboard-driven, and uses whitelisting for cookies, plugins, and javascript. It's very slightly more full-featured than xombrero, but also seems to be very slightly slower. It's method of keyboard operation is more vi-like, having an insert mode one toggles in and out of. It makes excellent use of screen space. Lots of keyboard bindings, but like most such applications, one need only remember the few one uses.

I give it a thumbs-up.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Memory and storage really aren't that expensive any longer.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just about machine resources; it's about efficiency of use. Having one's screen all cluttered up with launch bars, tool bars, button bars, big fat tabs and other crap takes away space from whatever it is you're actually trying to do. Having to take your hands off they keyboard to use the mouse slows you down, if you're doing something like text entry or editing. It's about being anally retentive and indulging one's obsessions.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a root around with it for the last hour, I kinda like it. I like that the bookmarks file is literally just a flat text file with <url><space><title><newline>. That's how bookmarks should be done sanely. Still sticking with chrome for now, but of all the minimalist browsers I think dwb might be the best of the lot.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
Had a root around with it for the last hour, I kinda like it. I like that the bookmarks file is literally just a flat text file with <url><space><title><newline>. That's how bookmarks should be done sanely. Still sticking with chrome for now, but of all the minimalist browsers I think dwb might be the best of the lot.

It also has adblocking, which xxxterm lacks.

There are only two things I don't like about it so far, in comparison to xxxterm / xombrero:

a. No obvious way to set it up to automatically search when you type something into the URI line that's not a URI. I've grown accustomed to just typing whatever I want to search for right into the same place I'd normally enter a URI to go to. This is minor and I think I can get over it, once I figure out how to correctly configure a search engine alias (it keeps searching Google for "undefined"). Also, it might be possible to set this up using the URI-handler feature and some regular expression that matches "Not a URI".
[Edit] There was a bug preventing the 'add a search engine' function from working properly. It will be fixed in the next release (within days, I gather). In the meantime, there is a patch in bugzilla. With that now working, I have discovered that if you just type some crap into something that would normally open a URI, dwb will by default engage your default search engine to find it. This wasn't working initially beause it doesn't come with a default search engine already set up.
Problem solved.

b. The hinting tags are a bit hard to see, having a too-small font and a black box around them. I haven't looked hard at the various font configuration options, but I don't think I can make these bigger without making the rest of the text bigger. I like that it uses letters instead of numbers for tags, because I often miss-type numbers unless I'm looking at the keyboard.
[Edit] I have found the settings to alter the appearance of the hinting tags, and they are more than adequate (you can change font, size, color, style, etc., etc.).
Problem solved.

c. It's missing a hinting feature of xxxterm: instead of typing in whatever hint tag it has assigned to a URL, xxxterm will let you just start typing the link text, and it will jump to that URL once you've typed enough to uniquely identify it. This is nice, because you don't have to look-and-think twice (i.e., once to find the link you want to go to, and a second time to read the hint that it's been tagged with).
[Edit] It does in fact do this, and there's a setting to enable or disable it.
Problem solved.

I have some keybindings to learn, but I like this browser! :)
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:14 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woah... extensions.
Code:
$ dwbem -a
==> Syncing with https://bitbucket.org/portix/dwb_extensions
==> Available extensions:
  * autoquvi
  * contenthandler
  * downloadhandler
  * formfiller
  * googlebookmarks
  * googledocs
  * grabscrolling
  * perdomainsettings
  * requestpolicy
  * supergenpass
  * userscripts
  * whitelistshortcuts
  * youtube_html5
$ dwbem -l
==> No extensions installed

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh*
I've begun measuring the time I haven't worked on my own browser in "number of minimalist browsers BK has tried since then".
Why do you have to remind me :(
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like xxxterm, but it locks up sometimes when I do a Google search with multiple tabs open.

If you're writing a minimalist browser, it should conform to BoneKracker Requirements and be released before the end of Christmas Holiday.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
If you're writing a minimalist browser, it should conform to BoneKracker Requirements and be released before the end of Christmas Holiday.

Chance of release before christmas is lim[x->0](x) … from negative infinity.

… but I'd like to know about the BK Reqs :P
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It's about being anally retentive and indulging one's obsessions.

Hell, why didn't you say so in the first place? That I can relate.

I'll quit giving you crap about your minimalist attitude to computing.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
If you're writing a minimalist browser, it should conform to BoneKracker Requirements and be released before the end of Christmas Holiday.

Chance of release before christmas is lim[x->0](x) … from negative infinity.

… but I'd like to know about the BK Reqs :P

Here is what comes to mind, without putting a lot of thought into it:

1. Fast, secure, standards-compliant, resource-efficient (the obvious basics).
2. Usable with keyboard alone (most-used user functions having configurable key bindings, navigation possible using URL-hinting).
3. Convenient whitelisting of URLs, by domain or site, for javascript, cookies (persistent, session), and flash/plugins. Convenient means it can be engaged using a single key-combination or mouse click; no digging through menus or typing into lists.
4. Ad blocking, using some regularly published block list, to include element-hiding.
5. Minimal use of screen space (no toolbars, menubars, etc.)
6. No vast, cascading trees of Gnomish or KDEish dependencies.
7. Integrated web search (ability to very easily pass a query to my desired search engine, for example, simply by typing it into the same field I would normally type a URL).
8. Extensibility (scriptable).
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
It's about being anally retentive and indulging one's obsessions.

Hell, why didn't you say so in the first place? That I can relate.

I'll quit giving you crap about your minimalist attitude to computing.

My "minimalist" concept is that I want to have only what I use. The rest is dead weight and potential vulnerabilities. Also, I want to be able to use it very efficiently.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
My "minimalist" concept is that I want to have only what I use.

Use everything. Problem solved.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be working for the Government.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like the fact that it can use grease monkey scripts.

I've got the following issues with it, some ranking higher than others.

First, I've managed to split the screen into three windows. How do I revert to a single pane? I've spent hours between google, irc and the man page, and can't find the answer.

Second, Youtube renders "weird" the "statusbar" for the video doesn't show. clicking on the video start's and stops it, but there is no way to seek, resize, change quality, or adjust volume.

Third, how do you go back? there is no :back, and ideally I would bind this to "alt-left arrow"

Fourth, it seems to bork on sites requiring SSL authentication

Fifth, "control-tab" currently switches between current and previous tab. I want it to switch to the next tab.

Last, how (is it possible?) do you "stack" and "collapse" tabs? I'd like to be able to do something similar to how Opera handles it.

NQS
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a nice cup of RTFM? :P

I think maybe this browser is not for you.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
First, I've managed to split the screen into three windows. How do I revert to a single pane? I've spent hours between google, irc and the man page, and can't find the answer.


'xv' forces a tab always visable, 'xv' again unfoces it

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Second, Youtube renders "weird" the "statusbar" for the video doesn't show. clicking on the video start's and stops it, but there is no way to seek, resize, change quality, or adjust volume.


This is due to me never setting a GTK theme. word in #gentoo is to use gtk-chtheme. emerging now

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Third, how do you go back? there is no :back, and ideally I would bind this to "alt-left arrow"


'H' is back, by default. to remap I used 'Mod1 @Left@'

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Fourth, it seems to bork on sites requiring SSL authentication


This is a known webkit bug. disable 'strict-ssl' for workaround.

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Fifth, "control-tab" currently switches between current and previous tab. I want it to switch to the next tab.


I was looking for 'J' and 'K'. remapped. also, found 'T' between those. 1T will goto first tab, 5T fifth tab, etc


NotQuiteSane wrote:
Last, how (is it possible?) do you "stack" and "collapse" tabs? I'd like to be able to do something similar to how Opera handles it.


Still working on this issue

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
How about a nice cup of RTFM? :P

I think maybe this browser is not for you.


Bah. still trying it out. also looking at Jumanji, have you tried that?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had any trouble with SSL, other than not being able to open Gentoo's Bugzilla site when I have ssl_strict activated, which I believe to be correct behavior, given that Gentoo Bugzilla uses a self-signed certificate.

I haven't tried Jumanji because I see no indication it has convenient URL white-listing for javascript, cookies, and flash/plugins, and this is one of my requirements.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one complaint: it's ad-blocker doesn't do element-hiding. Apparently the feature was included but is buggy.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I have one complaint: it's ad-blocker doesn't do element-hiding. Apparently the feature was included but is buggy.


Yeah, well, I have another. I'm currently running system rescue cd, putting a second gentoo on my disk (32 bit vs main 64. all so I can get android crap working and root my POS phone). I'm running whatever browser on the cd, and every time I press 'd' to close a tab, it doesnothing.

stupid dwb, getting me to expect a single key would work.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PEBKAC

This is mode confusion, I suspect. Pay attention to the status bar. If you're in the wrong mode, pressing 'd' doesn't do anything. If you hit 'd' and it doesn't work, try tapping escape (which will put you into "normal mode", no matter how befuckled you've got yourself), then press 'd'. Note that changing tabs or clicking with the mouse may (by design) change the mode you are in.

I had some "d is not working" frustration earlier, but it seems to have vanished. I have run into similar confusion when switching from a tab where I'm editing to another tab to look at something, then back to the first tab to type some more, and not understanding that I need to hit "i" to go back into editing mode. Earlier when I did this, the first thing I typed was 'H', which of course is <BACK>, so it jumped to another page.

You just need to get more familiar with it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no, BK, I was making fun of the fact that I got used to dwb keybindings, and am currently using a different browser on a live-cd, where those keybindings don't work.

although i've accidently closed a tab by pressing 'd' think ing i wanted to download a link.

NQS
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. :lol:

I haven't been using Windows the last few weeks, but after using xxxterm (xombrero) for several weeks, I was on a Windows machine in Internet Explorer, and I kept hitting F9 to jump to the address bar, which didn't work, of course.

I have also had to learn to stop pressing 'ctrl+t' to open a new tab (as you know, it's 'O' in dwb).

Now that I'm used to it, I do find using 'J' and 'K' very convenient for navigating between tabs.
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