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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not what he said. You can't change what somebody said to make it wrong and then argue against it; that's called a Strawman.

P.S. He's trolling. I call it like I see it. You on the other hand are not; you're a zombie.

This is exactly what I predicted would happen: several days of spin that amount to "it was all lies; our propaganda is the real truth", followed by a big-ass red herring (which turns out to be this deception that "unemployment" went down by a factor of 0.003 (ZOMG break out teh Shampayne! :roll: ) .

Ministry of Truth strikes again! The chocolate ration has been increased from 30 to 25 grams! Double-plus-good!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoreKracker wrote:
That's not what he said.


This is what Bane said: “And these [clean energy] businesses, many of them have gone out of business, I think about half of them, of the ones have been invested in, have gone out of business.”

BoreKracker wrote:
P.S. He's trolling.


He may not be on-message with rape-ublican dogma but most people would call that "balanced" or "intelligent" not "trolling".
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcscrotum wrote:
BoreKracker wrote:
That's not what he said.


This is what Bane said: “And these [clean energy] businesses, many of them have gone out of business, I think about half of them, of the ones have been invested in, have gone out of business.”

Thank you for confirming my point.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Democrats are all taking about how Romney has "moved to center". What they don't understand is that the man was pretty centrist to begin with, and he had to "move to the right" for the primaries. If you remember the primaries, he's the one the other guys were accusing of being a "closet liberal".

Anyway, now that they've seen, from the Debate, that he has credibility with voters in his more moderate position, the Obama camp has very rapidly shifted to a new strategy. Instead of painting Romney as an "extremist" and "weird", they are now trying to paint him as "untrustworthy" and "weird". (This is just my observation; I have no sources to refer to.)

Two days after the debate, Obama had a new ad out in all states that showed Romney flatly denying Obama's claim that he's going to give the wealthy a "$4 Trillion tax cut". The ad then cites the most trustworthy of all authorities on what Romney is going to do: The Tax Policy Center (without mentioning that it's effectively a propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, of course), who say otherwise. They conclude therefore that Romney can't be trusted. :roll:

We are left to assume, presumably from our experience since his 2008 campaign, that Obama can. :lol:

Also, unbiased, objective NBC News has announced that, for the Ryan - Biden debate, they are mobilizing a "Truth Squad", who will fact check the statements being made during the debate in real time (allegedly checking both parties).

So the new mainstream media strategy to deal with Democrats getting their shit staved in during these debates is to actually preempt the formation of any thought, and tell you what to think in real time. I bet they'll have a little "Truth-o-Meter" right up their on the screen, and they'll notch it up a bit every time Ryan says something that hurts. They'll probably maintain some cumulative "bullshit level" (as they would like us to see it), to drive the point home for those with short-term memory issues.

This is something that even George Orwell never foresaw.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who would have guessed that BK could be offended by a truth meter?

:D
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Who would have guessed that BK could be offended by a truth meter?

:D

:lol:

All intellectually honest people should be offended by it, along with ostensibly objective "think tanks" like the Tax Policy Center and so-called "fact-checkers" like politifact.org, both of which conceal a bias as egregious as that of Fox News or MSNBC and which are partisan, populist abusers of the less intellectually fortunate 80% or so of the population. It's unethical. It's immoral.

A good example is the ass-reaming Democrats gave Bill Lehrer, the moderator of the first debate, despite the fact that he actually gave Obama nearly five minutes more talking time than Romney. He's one of the few reasonably objective liberal journalists on TV or radio, not to mention being the most experienced, accomplished political moderator alive and even an expert on the very subject, yet the Democrats and their dick-ass lemming-sphere have spent a week smearing his name in one of the final years of his career, to try an cover up Obama's haplessness and weak factual position.

Once more, under the bus!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
*facepalm*

the next sentence wrote:
I read it in transcript form afterwards.
Transcripts aren't reliable. That's how most people are horribly wrong when criticizing Limbaugh. For those I've met personally who criticize him, they refer to transcripts (most likely after parroting a a show criticizing him, because I've heard those shows as well*). Having heard the actual Rush show being criticized, I've unequivocally been able to dismiss their transcript based criticism. It is usually a joke taken out of context, or it was an "inside" joke. Or it is just pure partisan BS (similar things said by libs are A-OK).

* I've listened to the shows on the way to work, then heard them parrot the exact same criticism.

For that reason, I never rely solely on transcripts as a criticism of the Left. I look for audio or video to hear / see it myself, and try to keep in mind potential humor. Usually what I've heard has been "standard" news, so humor is difficult to stand behind in those cases.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
sugar wrote:
*facepalm*

the next sentence wrote:
I read it in transcript form afterwards.
Transcripts aren't reliable. That's how most people are horribly wrong when criticizing Limbaugh. For those I've met personally who criticize him, they refer to transcripts (most likely after parroting a a show criticizing him, because I've heard those shows as well*). Having heard the actual Rush show being criticized, I've unequivocally been able to dismiss their transcript based criticism. It is usually a joke taken out of context, or it was an "inside" joke. Or it is just pure partisan BS (similar things said by libs are A-OK).

* I've listened to the shows on the way to work, then heard them parrot the exact same criticism.

For that reason, I never rely solely on transcripts as a criticism of the Left. I look for audio or video to hear / see it myself, and try to keep in mind potential humor. Usually what I've heard has been "standard" news, so humor is difficult to stand behind in those cases.


transcripts are more reliable than people listening to a debate. Much better than attempting to piece together the main points after watching the debate, or even someone who is writing down key points during the debate. People get distracted by things like posture, voice tone etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Obama Just Throw The Entire Election Away?

Quote:
The Pew poll is devastating, just devastating. Before the debate, Obama had a 51 - 43 lead; now, Romney has a 49 - 45 lead. That's a simply unprecedented reversal for a candidate in October. Before Obama had leads on every policy issue and personal characteristic; now Romney leads in almost all of them. Obama's performance gave Romney a 12 point swing! I repeat: a 12 point swing.

Romney's favorables are above Obama's now. Yes, you read that right. Romney's favorables are higher than Obama's right now. That gender gap that was Obama's firewall? Over in one night:
Quote:
Currently, women are evenly divided (47% Obama, 47% Romney). Last month, Obama led Romney by 18 points (56% to 38%) among women likely voters.

Seriously: has that kind of swing ever happened this late in a campaign? Has any candidate lost 18 points among women voters in one night ever? And we are told that when Obama left the stage that night, he was feeling good. That's terrifying. On every single issue, Obama has instantly plummeted into near-oblivion. He still has some personal advantages over Romney - even though they are all much diminished. Obama still has an edge on Medicare, scores much higher on relating to ordinary people, is ahead on foreign policy, and on being moderate, consistent and honest (only 14 percent of swing voters believe Romney is honest). But on the core issues of the economy and the deficit, Romney is now kicking the president's ass:


Continued in TFA.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I read any further, is the Pew poll left-leaning or right-leaning?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Before I read any further, is the Pew poll left-leaning or right-leaning?


Slightly left.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe the amount of febrile nonsense which has been written about the first debate. If you cut out all the media hysterics, Obama did fine and Romney is still a lying sack of shit who won't even give us his tax returns. I'd happily bet a large sum of money on an Obama win. In fact, I'm hoping that the fake Romney "surge" continues so I can get better odds.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I can't believe the amount of febrile nonsense which has been written about the first debate. If you cut out all the media hysterics, Obama did fine and Romney is still a lying sack of shit who won't even give us his tax returns. I'd happily bet a large sum of money on an Obama win. In fact, I'm hoping that the fake Romney "surge" continues so I can get better odds.


the tax returns are a distraction. kind of like the birth certificate.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
I can't believe the amount of febrile nonsense which has been written about the first debate. If you cut out all the media hysterics, Obama did fine and Romney is still a lying sack of shit who won't even give us his tax returns. I'd happily bet a large sum of money on an Obama win. In fact, I'm hoping that the fake Romney "surge" continues so I can get better odds.


the tax returns are a distraction. kind of like the birth certificate.


Don't pull him out of his Disneyland, he likes it in there. Reminds of mothers womb.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
the tax returns are a distraction. kind of like the birth certificate.


Like the birth certificate..?! Romney is deliberately hiding the details of his tax returns. That is unacceptable.

Obama didn't hide anything about his origins.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
juniper wrote:
the tax returns are a distraction. kind of like the birth certificate.


Like the birth certificate..?! Romney is deliberately hiding the details of his tax returns. That is unacceptable.

Obama didn't hide anything about his origins.

Then why are Obummer's University records all sealed? Maybe to hide the fact that he is an idiot. Or maybe he was admitted as a foreign exchange student.

And nobody to this day has seen the original Birth Certificate. Why did it take them years to produce a facsimile?

To say Barry has been open about his origins is just not true.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We so need a facepalm emoticon.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
juniper wrote:
the tax returns are a distraction. kind of like the birth certificate.


Like the birth certificate..?! Romney is deliberately hiding the details of his tax returns. That is unacceptable.

Obama didn't hide anything about his origins.

Then why are Obummer's University records all sealed? Maybe to hide the fact that he is an idiot. Or maybe he was admitted as a foreign exchange student.

And nobody to this day has seen the original Birth Certificate. Why did it take them years to produce a facsimile?

To say Barry has been open about his origins is just not true.


probably the birth certificate is more of an issue in the sense that it is a requirement. Obama is not an idiot. look in the dictionary under "palin" or "cane" for that.

In any case, you know I ain't a republican supporter, but both of these things just detract from the main issues. Why do people want to see his tax returns so badly and why does he want to hide them? We know he is stinking rich and paid next to no tax. Let's talk about that (taxation, the tax code and taxing the rich) rather than on Romney's taxes.

It's just sad. You guys have some pretty serious problems and the only voices who can be heard from over here are saying "tax returns!" and "birth certificate!".
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I can see why you could think there are more serious matters but to me this is a very significant indicator.

For starters, I think it shows an arrogance and contempt for the American people - all of them, not just the 47% - that he feels he can simply dismiss normal standards of behaviour for presidential candidates.

If we were allowed to consider them, mountains of gold in offshore tax havens might reveal something about the kind of president he will be. It's more evidence, along with his business record, of a grab-all-you can vulture capitalist creating business "success" at the expense of ordinary people. If Bane could get his butt in the Oval Office he'd gut America, using debt as "leverage", like he always does.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGFu56YYatE&feature=g-u-u
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
OK I can see why you could think there are more serious matters but to me this is a very significant indicator.

For starters, I think it shows an arrogance and contempt for the American people - all of them, not just the 47% - that he feels he can simply dismiss normal standards of behaviour for presidential candidates.

If we were allowed to consider them, mountains of gold in offshore tax havens might reveal something about the kind of president he will be. It's more evidence, along with his business record, of a grab-all-you can vulture capitalist creating business "success" at the expense of ordinary people. If Bane could get his butt in the Oval Office he'd gut America, using debt as "leverage", like he always does.

Romney followed tax code. Obummer had 3 years to change said statutes. Instead he gave close to a trillion dollars to his Wall Street benefactors.

How is any of this Romney's fault?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
transcripts are more reliable than people listening to a debate. Much better than attempting to piece together the main points after watching the debate, or even someone who is writing down key points during the debate. People get distracted by things like posture, voice tone etc.
Transcripts can absolutely be useful. But when you want to eliminate voice tone, you're not looking for an accurate message. Ignoring tone is deliberately misrepresenting what was said.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two men met head to head and debated. The better man won, because he was more genuine, smarter, and had the truth on his side. The Obama campaign has been desperately scrambling for a week trying to contain the damage, which amounts to Romney now being in a statistical tie with Obama nationally, and having flipped several of the battleground states in his favor.

Obama still has a slight advantage in the battleground states (i.e., an electoral ballot advantage), but Romney has what veteran candidate Richard M. Nixon one referred to "The Big Mo": the momentum.

The next two weeks are likely to bring out the dirtiest plays of the game. This is when Obama will unveil statues of Mexicans and personally rescue a battleground state from a mass-murdering terrorist. This is when some news story will pop up about baby-fucking Mormons, or some crack whore who claims she used to be a nurse and took it up the ass from Romney while his wife was sucking oxygen in the intensive care unit.

Meanwhile, Obama will also have to desperately try to convince everybody his foreign policy wasn't an abject failure, kowtowing and making concessions to Russia, enraging the Chinese, inflaming anti-American sentiment across the Middle East while simultaneously pursuing appeasement of it, turning Afghanistan into Vietnam 2.0, infuriating our trading partners by devaluing their U.S. currency reserves, throwing climate change under the political bus, blaming the oil spill on Britain, "reaching out with an open hand" to Iran, then threatening them and letting them call his bluff, then doing jack shit, waging a campaign of assassination, promising to close Guantanamo and conduct trials, and then renegging ... etc., etc., etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama's not 1/2 as smart as he thinks he is. His followers seem to think he's some sort of mystical genius... but he is what we all saw in the debate. A amateur in way over his head trying to bluff his way through. He's nothing but a bullshit artist.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
OK I can see why you could think there are more serious matters but to me this is a very significant indicator.

For starters, I think it shows an arrogance and contempt for the American people - all of them, not just the 47% - that he feels he can simply dismiss normal standards of behaviour for presidential candidates.

If we were allowed to consider them, mountains of gold in offshore tax havens might reveal something about the kind of president he will be. It's more evidence, along with his business record, of a grab-all-you can vulture capitalist creating business "success" at the expense of ordinary people. If Bane could get his butt in the Oval Office he'd gut America, using debt as "leverage", like he always does.

Romney followed tax code. Obummer had 3 years to change said statutes. Instead he gave close to a trillion dollars to his Wall Street benefactors.

How is any of this Romney's fault?


his point is that Romney is going to make it worse.
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