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notageek
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
So there would be harmony in FOSSdev land if it weren't for wives?
There would be harmony in any land if it weren't for wives.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like PulseAudio and systemd. I guess Lennart just needs to be slapped into humility every now and again.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Gotta be gay. No self-respecting man would go through life being known as "Kay". :P


no, Kay means Kempe - fighter. It is not his fault that americans love to give their daughters male names. Maybe because they wished to have a son. Or some kind suppressed gayness.... so when they screw their daughters they can pretend to fuck a boy.

It's been a long time since I was shocked by something I read on the internet. Thanks for reminding me what that feels like.
Let me know when you need a refresher course.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I really like PulseAudio and systemd. I guess Lennart just needs to be slapped into humility every now and again.

Either that or for his software not to suck moose balls.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed something this morning as I was checking changed packages
because of use flags busybox wanted to rebuild with a "-systemd" setting

I then did a euse -i to see what all has the flag and it shows up a lot in gnome related packages.

LoL, I guess the move is on. :roll:


Edit to add:

app-admin/openrc-settingsd: Use the versions of dbus and polkit files provided by sys-apps/systemd
app-emulation/qemu-guest-agent: Install SystemD init script instead of OpenRC
gnome-base/gdm: Use sys-apps/systemd for session tracking
gnome-base/gnome-control-center: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
gnome-base/gnome-session: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
gnome-base/gnome-shell: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
gnome-base/gvfs: Use sys-apps/systemd seat information for tracking owners of removable volumes
gnome-extra/gnome-packagekit: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for rebooting
gnome-extra/gnome-screensaver: Support sys-apps/systemd's logind
gnome-extra/gnome-system-monitor: Display sys-apps/systemd metadata, e.g. unit names, for running processes
media-sound/mpd: Enable support for systemd socket activation
media-sound/pulseaudio: Build with sys-apps/systemd support to replace standalone ConsoleKit.
net-misc/networkmanager: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
net-print/cups: Add support for systemd socket activation.
sys-apps/accountsservice: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
sys-apps/busybox: Support systemd
sys-apps/dbus: Build with sys-apps/systemd at_console support
sys-auth/pambase: Use pam_systemd module to register user sessions in the systemd control group hierarchy.
sys-auth/polkit: Use sys-apps/systemd instead of sys-auth/consolekit for session tracking
sys-fs/udisks: Support sys-apps/systemd's logind
sys-power/upower: Use sys-apps/systemd for hibernate and suspend
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Last edited by Anon-E-moose on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I really like PulseAudio and systemd. I guess Lennart just needs to be slapped into humility every now and again.


Pulseaudio is a real pain for anyone trying to do serious audio work on linux. Linux musicians have pretty much learned to avoid it like the plague. I'd like to see JACK at the core of Linux audio.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Either that or for his software not to suck moose balls.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
I noticed...

:lol:
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I want systemd developers anywhere near my dangley bits. :lol:
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I'd like to see JACK at the core of Linux audio.

Why?
I mean, what does JACK do for the average-joe linux user?
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux audio should have some kind of integrated design where you can move seamlessly from one use case to another: casual listening in stereo, multi-channel home cinema, or content production such as recording, mixing, mastering and movie-making. Skype and internet conferencing probably belong in the content production category too. If everybody just tries to do their own thing with no thought of how it all fits together, everybody ends up worse of. The platform becomes a struggle to work with, things keep breaking, and that starts a death spiral with falling numbers of users and developers. A broad base of compatibility also enables users to experiment and use the basic elements in new ways you didn't think of.

Jack is the pro-audio link in this chain with the low latency and tightly synchronised audio/midi streams you need for music production. It's the obvious thing to build on.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALSA user space needs to completely disappear with either PulseAudio or JACK hooking directly into the kernel.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and you are a developer of heavy sound applications so you have just voiced an informed opinion instead of just some juvenile crap?
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Jack is the pro-audio link in this chain with the low latency and tightly synchronised audio/midi streams you need for music production. It's the obvious thing to build on.

Yeah, for definite. I never understood why jack didn't make it into the "mainstream" desktop, since it's always been the bomb. (Just look at any of the pro-audio distros like dyne or gentoo's pro-audio overlay if you don't believe us.) It's like saying "we don't need a decent libc to build on, we can just use any old crap, so long as it sort-of supports some shiny new use-case." It's still crap: the fact that it took however many years to get halfway workable just confirms it.

Still, I reckon that's more to do with the pulseaudio developer's love of the limelight and marketing hype, than anything else. IMO the essence of the UNIX philosophy is basically humility in the face of complexity (and one's own natural delight in creating code from thought which actually does something.) As a result, the serious coders, who designed and implemented the ecosystem we take for granted, don't usually go around beating their chests everywhere, demanding attention and users. They let their work speak for itself.
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danomac
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use alsa only, I've never needed any of these "helper" tools. In fact, I did try pulse for shits and giggles, and it broke absolutely everything sound related.

As far as the original topic, why on earth would udev block something like that? Are they retarded?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
and you are a developer of heavy sound applications so you have just voiced an informed opinion instead of just some juvenile crap?

Let me rephrase. ALSA user space is fine if you want to use just ALSA.
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
and you are a developer of heavy sound applications so you have just voiced an informed opinion instead of just some juvenile crap?

Let me rephrase. ALSA user space is fine if you want to use just ALSA.

And given that ALSA is *the* audio driver subsystem on Linux...
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
and you are a developer of heavy sound applications so you have just voiced an informed opinion instead of just some juvenile crap?

Let me rephrase. ALSA user space is fine if you want to use just ALSA.

And given that ALSA is *the* audio driver subsystem on Linux...

And given that drivers are in the kernel and I'm not even talking about that...
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szczerb
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So ALSA is just userspace?

The first ones that google threw at me...
http://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/43/8130.Asoc_5F00_architecture.png
http://www.alsa-project.org/~tiwai/lk2k/lk2k.html
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, no.

* SIGH *

I don't think ALSA user space should be necessary if I'm running PulseAudio.
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I don't think ALSA user space should be necessary if I'm running PulseAudio.

And I don't think PulseAudio bloatspace is necessary if I'm already running ALSA.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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danomac
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I don't think ALSA user space should be necessary if I'm running PulseAudio.


I actually lauged at this one. PulseAudio uses ALSA as a dependency.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I am obviously doing such a poor job articulating my views, I will attempt to explain them more clearly. Currently, there are two main components to ALSA: the kernel drivers and the user space API. I believe that since PulseAudio is a user space daemon, it should completely replace ALSA's user space API if the user so wishes. For those who do not like PulseAudio, nothing needs to change. It's PulseAudio that needs to change.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your posting does not make sense at all.

Apart from its shortcomings, it is also an extremely stupid idea. Why should an app that makes use of the full power of alsa - including ladspa plugins - be crippled just because some idiot dev thought that you must run pulseaudio?

Pulseaudio must never get in the way of other apps.

Sadly that is not true.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you guys even on Gentoo? When were you ever forced to run PulseAudio? That's not what I'm talking about. This is for those who would want to run PulseAudio. ALSA, as it is, is fine. Nobody should force you to run PulseAudio. I, on the other hand, like it. But I think it could be done more efficiently.
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szczerb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started using it when trying to use the sink on my server (which is connected to the Hi-Fi) with a source on my laptop. Failed at that and gave up.

On one hand I'm still using it without issues, but on the other it doesn't give anything more then ALSA would on it's own :/
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