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rabcor
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Sound Card Issues / Rant Reply with quote

Title edited for forum guidelines violations. rabcor, please see the Gentoo Forum Guidelines. — JRG

-If you actually wanna help with the real issue, go here. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-937842.html -
I started off yesterday with no sound, i managed to somehow magically fix it by re-emerging some alsa related packages. but now i'm only getting 2.1 sound (i have a 5.1 system) i don't know how i'd go about testing my rear speakers either as i'm quite unfamiliar to this environment, and found (to my surprise) the sound options lacking compared to windows.

anyhow, i'm using a (Not overtly compatible with linux) Creative Recon 3D soundcard, its one of their new 3D something cards, support for that was added by some japanese guy whose name i forgot who was working on some distro by editing the intel drivers.

Now... in my kernel i've disabled support for all sound devices i don't intend to do (namely hdmi and my intergrated intel soundcard) my sound is working as 2.1 which is useable but not satisfactory as i have a 5.1 setup

My KMix isn't working properly as in... its detcting the card that i'm using, and it is scrolling down pcm if i use my keyboards sound-scroll button, but none of the options in KMix are having any effect on my sound's volume for some reason, and i'm very much a fan of using this keyboard scroll button so this is kindof important for me.

And finally, the 5.1 system i've got that it's only using as a 2.1 setup. why is this specifically?

as far as i personally can see its only picking up devices pluuged into the green audio jack.

I was troubleshooting some net problems, i disabled xdm at startup. i re-enabled it and booted up with something plugged into the front jack. sound doesn't work at all and it gives me a message "device does not work falling back to default", i rebooted with nothing plugged in the front jack.. again no sound (it said it stopped detecting one of the 2 devices, it usually detects hda-creative and hda-creative analog something) but my speakers are being picked up at boot (before i enter my X environment) because i hear this thumping sound when i boot. damn this is annoying. i repeated my steps from last night emerging alsa-utils alsa-tools alsa-firmware and alsa-libs and rebooted (this fixed my sound last night) this time it didn't help at all, it makes no sense my sound just dropped out like that.

Then now, after being on my widnows for a while all of a sudden my sound started working again when i booted back into gentoo... talk about unpredictable...

-slightly off topic-
Aside from all this, if i wasn't having these specific problems i'm having i'd be perfectly happy with the sound, even if non-configurable i'm liking the sound i'm getting on linux better than on my windows with the official driver, this is probably because the official driver forces a lot of THX based options upon you, and i liked the old options on X-Fi much better. but this unofficial intel driver modification is giving better jack-of-all trades sound from it rather than the official configurable driver that seems to want you to configure it specifically for whatever you're doing with the card, and seems to be rather biased on "i am a gaming soundcard"
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Last edited by rabcor on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:30 am; edited 7 times in total
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roravun
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be more specific if you want help.
For instance, what does "alsa also seems to detect the soundcard" mean? Do you see your soundcard in alsamixer? Can you get some sounds with 'play'?
Does 'lspci -vvv' show a 'module in use' for your soundcard? Also 'pastebin' your dmesg and link it here.

Moreover, there is no sense in upgrading your kernel just to discover that your sound card is not working anymore. If it is ok on the 3.4.9 then stick with it. You can always report regression, or sit and wait, trying out coming kernels.

Quote:
f i have practically the same settings on everything in the kernel at least

That means you did 'make oldconfig'?
You also should try livecd distro/genkernel. It could be that somehow your configuration is screwed.

Quote:
between kernel and alsa

Alsa *is* in the kernel :-)

Quote:
i'm with windows. and if not... i'm going to stay with windows.

Phew, you could give up Linux for not working sound? I would rather get a new card than do that :D
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah it never worked on 3.4.9 you need 3.5.x for the new creative cards to work, which is kindof a bummer

anyhow, i managed to fix my sound and get it working as 2.1(i just re emerged some alsa stuffs and voila)

But i want it to work with all my 5 speakers and not just 2.

i'm editing my specifics into the main thread.

I was rather drunk last night so sorry for my inconvenient manner of.... explaining things.

But i'd rather trade oud linux than my soundcard, i'm too much of a fan of creative sound systems on my computer to part with this, it was also an expensive card, and it really was worth it. and i needed it to be able to use my 5.1 setup as my intergrated card only supported stereo. Reason i'd rather trade out linux is that everything i want my computer to do will be done and done fast on windows. i mean i have an ssd and i7 anyways, but windows is lacking in ways to fully utilize that stuff, so is traditional linux setups, but gentoo..... gentoo is happily recieveing all my specs to the point i'd even consider getting something even better. Even if it takes a bit of work, its worth it in the end if i can get it working like i want it to. but if not, its not worth spending months on, and better just quit now rather than sometime later, i'm not changing my hardware in the name of compatibility with the operating system, thats just not how my world used to work before linux, and that will not be how i'll allow it to work ever. it's the job of the operating system and the company that made the hardware to make sure my stuff is compatible. and this time the side thats lacking... is the company that made my hardware. i think it's possible it just needs better drivers to work like i want it to, and if so i'll have to wait on it probably until kernel 3.6 or even 3.7. thered be no sense in using linux until then for me.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor,

How do you know 5.1 doesn't work?

Have you been testing with a 5.1 source?
Have you set up dmix to do something with the surround when there is no surround data?
What does speaker-test tell you?

Feel free to submit patches for the driver if thats whats needed.

Windows drivers are produced while the hardware is being developed.
Linux drivers are in general, only written once the Linux devs have bought the hardware and thats after its on sale to the public. There are a few exceptions.
Creative does not support Linux - so they won't help you.

You can live with it, help fix it, or go back to Windows.
Linux is not for everyone. An operating system is just a tool to do a job. Use the right tool for your job.
Unlike Microsoft and Creative, we don't have anything to sell you.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor,

let me put it in this way. We do not sell Linux. If you want it we are here to help. If you do not want it we could not care less. What Neddy pointed out is correct. Your problem is not Linux not supporting Creative, the problem is Creative is not supporting Linux. Long time Linux users as myself vote with dollars and do not buy unsupported hardware.
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-for the 2 above posters-
OH you're here to help me? i didn't know, thanks for clarifying on that... i think you're both being rather rude to me, stating things i had already said in my post. or things that i would have to be a total idiot not to know... also telling me i should do things i obviously have no idea how i would do isn't gonna be very productive, i can hardly make a simple program, much less a driver! (hey i can make a "Hello world" program in c++ and python! that'll help me fix drivers for sure!)

i already said that i didn't know how i would go about testing my other 3 speakers, so instead of saying "did you use dmix with..." (what? in a noob friendly language please? the only soundtest i know is in the multimedia-phonon tab and for all i know it could just be a stereo test, when using it anyhow i only get sound from 2 speakers and my subwoofer, that is what i was going by...) you could've just told me what you would do to test if all 5 speakers were working or not. mr. expert.

Jaglover, if you are here to help, why don't you do that instead of talking down to me stating obvious facts, the problem is not creative not supporting linux, a certain japanese programmer fixed this issue thankfully, altho that indeed MIGHT be a problem, i had not gotten the chance to properly test my speakers, the problem is INDEED and can be nothing other than linux, when my speakers work, and then upon reboot they wont work, more specifically... since my speakers are being properly picked up and they do kick in upon boot, the problem lies somewhere between my bootup process, and when i've entered my kde-environment. so, if you're here to help, instead of saying you're here to help and stating obvious facts can you live up to the words you just said? can you help me? no? then why did you post in this thread? does this make you feel superior? if so then... i'm glad i could help you good sir.

Please don't be so disrespectful towards noobs, do realize that noobs are noobs because "they don't know" the stuff you do about a certain thing (in this case linux and gentoo) that is why we come here. for help. I wouldn't be asking for help if i wanted to give up just yet, but i will give up eventually. I will not let my software control my hardware. this is because i'm too used to windows, i choose my hardware because its good, not because it supports something or doesn't support something. and if my software dislikes my hardware, my software can go to hell. because from my point of view, it is the software that should be based on the hardware, not the other way around (usually anyways) if the software fails to do this... the software fails. Making an operating system is a big thing. and for making itself compatible with hardware i think its doing a very very good job, because its an operating system and its trying to make everything work on it. and in most cases all basic hardware will work on it, thats GPUS, CPUS and motherboards, hard drives, power supplies and dvd-roms. but as soon as a territory like "soundcard" or... "more than just a basic" keyboard or mouse comes into play, its usually not gonna support that "more than just the basic functions" that is all i will expect too. But for a fact, the drivers are there, and they are working, and i'm pretty sure whats failing here is not the driver but something else. if the driver was failing my device would remain undetected most likely, or it would never work.

I really like these forums, and the support here is excellent, i really like the operating system too, but i never like when people talk down to me so that was very rude of you two, shame on you.
And please don't discuss this further in this thread unless you've actually got something to help me, i believe these forums have a private messaging system. use it if you must.

-for everyone else-

anyone know what could be up with my system and how i would go about troubleshooting it and finding out specifically where the problem lies, and then maybe how to fix it?
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor wrote:
-for everyone else-
anyone know what could be up with my system and how i would go about troubleshooting it and finding out specifically where the problem lies, and then maybe how to fix it?

rabcor ... I think the above mixture of sarcasm, miscomprehension, and special pleading, is enough to have alienated a good portion of your potentential helpers, myself included, enough in fact that I'll refrain in responding to any further questions from you.

You seem to have missed the fact that gentoo is first and foremost a community, and this community owes you nothing. You have been provided with an incalculable number of hours labour without anyone asking anything from you, except perhaps that you accept that we exist more as a mutual entity rather than something designed to address your specific needs/problems. NeddySeagoon and a Jaglover put in hours of their free time to help out 'newbies' like yourself and to then be accused of "talking down to you" and being "rude" because they respond in straightforward terms to your confused ramblings ... that, quite frankly, is "insulting". Perhaps you might consider contributing something yourself in some way, or at minimum refrain from the above nonsense.

Anyhow, I don't plan to waste any more time on the issue, good luck.

khay
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor wrote:
But for a fact, the drivers are there, and they are working

The vesa driver works too, but there's a reason you're not using that, isn't there?
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PaulBredbury
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an earlier thread, so I reported this thread and am surprised it continued.

Help Vampire alert!
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulBredbury wrote:
There was an earlier thread, so I reported this thread and am surprised it continued.

Help Vampire alert!


That thread already recieved sufficient replies and i stopped tracking it at the last post i put into it... i'd never use ubuntu, i'd consider fedora tho.

that aside, i asked why my card wasn't working, you kindly told me it needed kernel 3.5 and then told me to install that i needed to read a handbook entry.... I also forgot about that thread, so sorry about that, i probably would've continued it if i had remembered.

Now, khay you are completley right, and i knew all of this, and that this thread was doomed the moment i wrote that reply, but can you really blame me for it?

I did not want to do it. but if someone speaks down to me i can't very well just sit and take it, i talk back. If i had not written that i'd get this unscratchable itch somewhere in my spine for a while.

I am no help vampire, in fact... this is the first time i have ever signed up on forums to ask for help. well technically not... the last time i did it it was due to a bug in the code of a game i was playing,, which a developer replied to and fixed. I posted one thread in the whole steam forums... if i'm on windows i'm rather much of an expert, i tend to be the one helping people 95% of the time, the other 5% i use google. i already told you in my other thread why i can't seem to use google, i don't understand how everything works.

For example, for all i know... a fix for a problem on another linux distro might not work on gentoo, so since theres no "how to use google" entry in the handbook (not that i saw) i automaticlaly disregard all google entries that are not directly aimed at google, or linux with no specific distro.

You told me about that handbook entry with keywords, through using google, you did not give me a link to the handbook, but a link to the proper search term on google, i approve of that. you just helped me get closer to learning how to use google. but not close enough.

And calling me a help vampire is another rude deal, in my defense i hardly deserved that. (i'll agree with the duplicate thread part, and thanks to that and how this thread has turned out i'll rename it and get with the other thread instead, altho i doubt any of you are likely to ever help me again because you all strike me as people who hold grudges. luckily i don't however and i can see where you guys are coming from, since even if i am a noob here i'm a guru or expert elsewhere thats answering questions. and i usually just tell people what they have to do to fix their problems if i know how it can be fixed, if i don't i ignore the thread entirely despite its contents. I seriously do know where you're coming from, but it is uncalled for.) So yes, i clearly lack the ability to use google right now. I dont think you helping me even matters to you anymore than if you do you get that "good karma" or something like that, it feels good to help people you're not obliged to help, i get that, i do it myself sometimes. I'm obviously not waiting for someone else to do my job for me or do my thinking for me, i tried a whole lot of things and thought like a madman, and those things didn't work. i also tend to write down everything i did so its easier for others to pinpoint my problem.

Anyhow, this has become such a mess i'm renaming this redundant thread into something fitting (i wont edit out anything i wrote tho in case someone likes reading such threads) and i'll continue with my real issue in the.

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-937842.html
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor,

You need to become a part of the community - at least enough to understand how the community works and your place in it.
My previous post was a serious attempt to explain how the community works, not 'talking down' to you. I have no idea of your skill set. As with any community people contribute according to their skills.

We will not spoonfeed you. Thats not the community way. We understand the Linux and Gentoo is new to you. Compare the amount of time you have spend learning Windows and Linux.
Thats a rough illustration of your level of knowledge in the two systems. Linux is a steep learning curve and unlike Windows, you need to learn a lot to get it installed. Thats upfront learning that will also help you maintain your Gentoo.

Some of it is attitude - learning how to learn, learning where the resources are like Google, info, man /usr/share/docs ... and others.
Its also learning how to get the best out of Gentoo. Make it work ... change it to make it better, if it breaks, undo your change and try something different.
You also need to learn about tab completion in the shell.

When I pointed you to the handbook to learn about keywords, I expected you to know where the handbook is as you used it to install Gentoo. I knew it wasn't new to you.


Now back to your sound card. Open a terminal, type spea and press the tab key. It should complete to
Code:
speaker-test
. next press the return key.
When you get fed up listening, press Ctrl-C now add the -h option to the above command. Read the output.
What does
Code:
man speaker-test
tell you?

Homework apply what you have learned to your own system and report back.

You might want to Google for the book "Linux in a Nutshell" you can buy the dead tree edition for ready money or the online edition is free.
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you so much for giving me a reply, i've waited for days now for one. and i never expected nor wanted to be spoonfed (regardless of what i may strike you as... i actually want to learn... and apart from the picture in my sig, what drove me to use gentoo was that it looked like the fastest way to understand linux.), all i expected was some directions, links or commands just like what you just gave me, which is usually what i've been given when i asked for help on these forums...

either way, speaker-test gives me

Code:
Playback device is default
Stream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 1 channels
Using 16 octaves of pink noise
ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1018:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave
Playback open error: -2, No such file or directory


speaker-test -Ddefault:Creative does give me a successful test of 1 channel (front left) but i hear no sound.

speaker-test -Dsomething:Creative -c 2 will also give me a test, but again no sound.

after this, out of a hunch i re-made my kernel with re-added support for realtek and for hdmi sound drivers (basically putting the intel soundcard drivers back to original settings) i thought it wouldn't, and it did not help (also the system was working fine with the kernel i had before, but it looks like the device list i got gave me a range of front-surround7.1 setups, which makes me think that the drivers probably do support my 5.1 setup after all, which is truly a relief.

Now i'm trying a cold boot, like i had mentioned i had yet to test the results from. (i unplugged my computer for like 2 minutes) and the speakers now do work.

speaker-test is giving me the exact same results as before except now i can actually hear the sound. however just as before... speaker-test doesn't allow "speaker-test -Dsurround51:Creative -c 6 (it only allows me to do -c 2 and nothing else, on any device except default:Creative it allows me to go to any number when i do, it will only give me sound on L and R, subwoofer (LFE) wont make a sound, even if it does work in the system) i was gonna try to find and download a 5.1 speaker test file but i had a conflicting ip problem on my internet which knocked me out of the net. ... I downloaded a proper speaker test file, and only my front and subwoofer are working.

now i will test how she likes it if i reboot into windows, then back into gentoo... no sound, i don't get how this happens since even if on the same ssd, they're on entirely different partitions and they only have shared storage space which is a 3tb drive.

Doing a normal shutdown... then after 5 seconds starting again... sound works. so my sound will work as a 2.1 system, but not if i boot into windows and then restart and go to gentoo.

Now. i'd like to fix this problem with reboot somehow, but it is something i can live with. what now matters to me the most is to try to make the system use 6 channels (5.1) and to make kmixer work properly (kde's default volume control thingy... if i use the volume scroll button it turns down the pcm for my creative device in its interface, but it does not affect my sound in the slightest)

So, there you have a report, in my mind problems are there to be solved, they're like an itch that must be scratched to me (at least on windows) so i do want to make everything perfect even if i can live with it not being so, so what do you make of the results of my testing? any ideas what i can do? are these things within my power to fix? or is the problem in the makeshift drivers and nothing i could do anything about?

Also, i think this phoronix arcticle is appropriate to point out http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEwNTg it talks about this specific driver. and when "I" try to google it, this arcticle is the best thing i can find, i don't find anyone else having problems with the cards on linux. but this is more than likely cus i don't know how to look for it.

Note:
I will very likely be changing my soundcard soon. from the Recon 3D to a X-Fi Titanium. completely unrelated to this issue, i simply figured out that the X-Fi titanium is better for just a slightly increased price. (as in, according to reviews i've read, the new soundcore 3d are not living up to their expectations judging by their prices) and since i know i was completely satisfied with my low-end x-fi card that i used to have before this. But this one, even if an excellent card in its core is way much more trouble configuring than its worth. it has an advantage of better subwoofer utilization, but it has the disadvantage of worse quality when it comes to stereo audio, UNLESS i disable all of its "special" features, which... if i do, makes the surround not work properly, with my old x-fi i was able to just press one button and eveyrthing worked. This is why i'm going to change. Most likely, altho not certain. The x-fi series are completely compatible by now with linux, unlike the soundcore 3d cards which use modified intel drivers. The reason why i want to go back to x-fi is that whereas the x-fi performed excellently in any task, especially gaming, i find the soundcore 3d card i'm using performs decently in any task, but masterfully only in gaming, unless i specifically configure it for every little thing i do on it which is just not for me... not with my sound anyhow. Miraculously tho, i was more satisfied with the sound of my 2.1 speaker setup on the card with the modified intel drivers when doing stuff like watching videos or listening to music than i was with the official drivers using a 5.1 setup. Shame on creative... or my ears.

If i'll get a reply to this post with something that could help me solve the issue i'm having, i'll make sure to test it and see if it'll solve it and post my results in this thread before i trade in my card. i'll also state once i've changed my card if that will happen.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor,

I'm not pointing fingers or assigning blame. There appears to be a communications issue due to us (your and your helpers) not understanding your abilities.

With regard to your assessment of computer sound cards, I'm not sure what you mean by "better". The inside of a computer is probably the worst place in the world to put the analogue electronics required for good audio reproduction. When you throw in mp3 and digital recording, its no longer music. Anyway, I digress.

The dosn't work after a warm reboot is a well understood issue that applies to other hardware, not just your sound card. During the power up sequence, all the hardware in a computer system gets a 'reset pulse'. This pulse does lots of things, it stops the system running until the power supply voltages are stable, its used by all the hardware to reset to a known state, ready to listen to the bus. Digital electronics initialises randomly without this pulse.
During a warm reset (power not removed) there is no reset pulse, so the incoming operating system has to pick up the hardware the way the outgoing OS left it. Sometimes that doesn't work.
Some devices shut down in a 'deep sleep' and won't wakeup again without a power cycle. There is/was a popular network card like that.
Yet other devices won't work in Linux until that have been started under Windows. This is normally very new devices where the initialisation has not been worked out yet. It gets fixed in a few kernel iterations.

Gentoo is an excellent platform for learning linux on. At the moment you are at the stage of not knowing what it is you don't know. Lets start with your sound card.

Please post the output of
Code:
lspci
and
Code:
lspci -n
with that information, Google will tell me all about your sound card(s)
Also post the output of
Code:
ls -l /dev/snd
That will show the sound devices that the kernel knows about.
One last piece of information, is your kernel driver set as <M> or <Y>?
Both ways work but <M> is much better when things don't quite work.

I understand your enthsiasm but don't do anything else to change your system meanwhile. I will respond to your post with some recommendations for you to test.
It will help us both if its in the same (possibly broken) state as it was when you posted.
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
rabcor,

I'm not pointing fingers or assigning blame. There appears to be a communications issue due to us (your and your helpers) not understanding your abilities.

With regard to your assessment of computer sound cards, I'm not sure what you mean by "better". The inside of a computer is probably the worst place in the world to put the analogue electronics required for good audio reproduction. When you throw in mp3 and digital recording, its no longer music. Anyway, I digress.

The dosn't work after a warm reboot is a well understood issue that applies to other hardware, not just your sound card. During the power up sequence, all the hardware in a computer system gets a 'reset pulse'. This pulse does lots of things, it stops the system running until the power supply voltages are stable, its used by all the hardware to reset to a known state, ready to listen to the bus. Digital electronics initialises randomly without this pulse.
During a warm reset (power not removed) there is no reset pulse, so the incoming operating system has to pick up the hardware the way the outgoing OS left it. Sometimes that doesn't work.
Some devices shut down in a 'deep sleep' and won't wakeup again without a power cycle. There is/was a popular network card like that.
Yet other devices won't work in Linux until that have been started under Windows. This is normally very new devices where the initialisation has not been worked out yet. It gets fixed in a few kernel iterations.

Gentoo is an excellent platform for learning linux on. At the moment you are at the stage of not knowing what it is you don't know. Lets start with your sound card.

Please post the output of
Code:
lspci
and
Code:
lspci -n
with that information, Google will tell me all about your sound card(s)
Also post the output of
Code:
ls -l /dev/snd
That will show the sound devices that the kernel knows about.
One last piece of information, is your kernel driver set as <M> or <Y>?
Both ways work but <M> is much better when things don't quite work.

I understand your enthsiasm but don't do anything else to change your system meanwhile. I will respond to your post with some recommendations for you to test.
It will help us both if its in the same (possibly broken) state as it was when you posted.


Unfortunately, your reply came in just a bit late, I already went and got my soundcard refunded (like i explained before, i did not do this cus of the problems i was having, but because i simply disliked it, it was way too overpriced for the performance it gave, and practically everyone online seems to agree with that, and i as one who had already tasted an X-Fi agreed that i liked the x-fi much better than the soundcore 3d, therefore i am unlikely to recommend this product to anyone, but it is still preferable to asus soundcards, and intergrated audio in my book, but just... not worth it in the end)

However i'll answer your questions the best i can from memory, since i really would have liked to solve these issues before trading out my card. But due to time restrictions on doing that... i had very little choice in the matter (i only had 2 or 3 days more to turn it in, and since i was passing by today, in the name of gas money...)

It was set to <M> it wouldn't allow me to set it to <*> cus i just left the Sound Card-Advanced Linux Sound Architecture at default, which is <M> (and the pci soundcards are a subcategory of that)


lspci detected the device as something like "*Creative Device 0012" (or 0013, can't remember which but it was one of the 2)

I unfortunately never ran ls -l /dev/snd while i still had the card, so i guess in the end that probably was not much use.

I don't think i'll have a problem with sound again on linux anytime soon, and i'm probably gonna revert back to the latest gentoo stable kernel (altho i think 3.4.9 is a bit outdated with the current kernel being like 3.6, i wonder if the way they do it on gentoo is test a kernel or software for a certain amount of time and then brand it as stable, or if they're gonna take a leap with the current stable release from 3.4.9 to like... 3.5.4 or 3.6 without going through all the releases inbetween)

But even if it was just a little bit too late, thanks a lot for putting up with me and trying to help me! I believe we probably would've resolved these issues if we had had a few more days to do it.


--- However since we're on the topic of sound related problems.

I'm not exactly sure how much of a problem this is, but my intel PCH in Kmixer is giving me settings for front, surround, center and LFE (as if i had a 5.1 setup) however, this intergrated card only supports stereo, microphone... and has some blue plug whose point i do not know. so the card definetly doesn't support all these settings, i'm pretty sure my mixer is not supposed to give me options for surround, center and subwoofer.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor,

I expect your onboard sound card is 5.1 or 7.1 however, some jack sockets are probably shared between inputs and outputs.
Such setups are quite common with onboard sound.

Again, lspci and lspci -n will give me what I need to google to find out about your card.
ls -l /dev/snd will tell what the kernel thinks it can see.

With dual function connectors, that may well be more than you appear to have connectors for.
If you post the part number for your motherboad, I can read the manual too.

Code:
dmidecode | less
will help there. You will need to emerge dmidecode, if its still in the tree.
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate all the help you're offering, i really do, but it's a bit (no... way) too much to ask of you to read my motherboard manual and google my parts (even if it would be interesting to see what keywords you'd use for it, i might learn something)

I'll read my manual myself, i have it around here somewhere, but thanks for the offer. however there are some things i'll pick you up on.

I'd like to know how you can see anything sensible out of this... other than just that a certain device in that list is the same device on a normal lspci output. for example, what does 0600: 8086:0100 tell you?
Code:
lspci -n
00:00.0 0600: 8086:0100 (rev 09)
00:01.0 0604: 8086:0101 (rev 09)
00:14.0 0c03: 8086:1e31 (rev 04)
00:16.0 0780: 8086:1e3a (rev 04)
00:1a.0 0c03: 8086:1e2d (rev 04)
00:1b.0 0403: 8086:1e20 (rev 04)
00.1c.0 0604: 8086:1e10 (rev c4)
00:1c.4 0604: 8086:1e18 (rev c4)
00:1c.5 0604: 8086:244e (rev c4)
00:1d.0 0c03: 8086:1e26 (rev 04)
00:1f.0 0601: 8086:1e44 (rev 04)
00:1f.2 0106: 8086:1e22 (rev 04)
01:00.0 0300: 10de:1189 (rev a1)
01:00.1 0403: 10de:0e0a (rev a1)
03:00.0 0200: 10ec:8168 (rev 06)
04:00.0 0604: 1b21:1080 (rev 03)


Or this
Code:
ls -l /dev/snd
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root      80 Oct 3 19:51 by-path
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Oct 3 19:51 controlC0
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Oct 3 19:51 controlC1
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 6 Oct 3 19:51 hwC0D0
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 12 Oct 3 19:51 hwC1D0
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 5 Oct 3 19:51 hwC1D0
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D0c
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D0p
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D2c
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 11 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D3p
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 10 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC1D7p
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 9 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC1D8p
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 8 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC1D9p
crw-------  1 root root  116, 1 Oct 3 19:51 seq
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Oct 3 19:51 timer


Because those 2 make absolutely no sense to me, especially the first one. (a guide or something would be nice)

then about lspci all audio devices i get are
Code:
01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GK104 HDMI Audio Controller (rev a1)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev04)


My intergrated soundcard only has 3 plugs on it, so if all 3 would be used as output then it could support up to 5.1, i'l read up my motherboard manual on that myself thank you, i'm talking to you more so that you can make me read stuff rather than the other way around.

Wow you're right, the motherboard said i could set my intergrated sound up as 5.1, i had no idea of this with intergrated soundcards, then again i did think it was odd that they would randomly downgrade from 7.1 intergrated soundcards to stereo soundcards...

I set it up properly, it works in windows i had to configure it in realtek HD audio manager to make it work in there, i have no such thing in here however, how can i make it use the Mic Input for center/subwoofer... and that blue plug for rear speakers? (currently googling.)
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Last edited by rabcor on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabcor,

There is no such thing as a late reply and you need not apologise. We are all volunteers.
I help fix other peoples broken systems because it saves me breaking my own. :)

Code:
01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation GK104 HDMI Audio Controller (rev a1)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev04)

The interesting bits here are the numbers at the start of the lines. They tell the
Code:
PCI Bus:Function Number:Subfuction

So you can match 00:1b.0 with 00:1b.0 0403: 8086:1e20 (rev 04) and get the PCI Vendor and device IDs. Here 8086:1e20.

8086 is Intels PCI Vendor ID and 1e20 identifies the sound chip on your motherboard. It does not tell the codec however.
Google tells us nothing about your sound card. This is good. Googling
Code:
8086 1e20 kernel
shows lots of incidental his related to WiFi issues.
If there were problems and fixes, it would be all over google.

Grepping the kernel source
Code:
$ cd /usr/src/linux
roy@NeddySeagoon /usr/src/linux $ grep -R 1E20 ./
turns up
Code:
Binary file ./sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.ko matches
./sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.mod.c:MODULE_ALIAS("pci:v00008086d00001E20sv*sd*bc*sc*i*");
Binary file ./sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.mod.o matches

My sound card uses the same driver, hence the binary file matches but the search term shows up in ./sound/pci/hda/snd-hda-intel.mod.c:MODULE_ALIAS("pci:v00008086d00001E20sv*sd*bc*sc*i*");
This is the entry that allows this kernel device driver to bind yo your sound card. Notice the 8086 in red too.
You can often find device drivers given the Vendor and Device IDs like this.

From your /dev/snd we see
Code:
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 7 Oct 3 19:51 controlC0
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 13 Oct 3 19:51 controlC1
which tells use you have two sound cards. That can make life difficult as they may not always start in the same order. So on one boot, one card is the defualt and everything works, on the next they swap and nothing works.

Code:
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 4 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D0c

This tells that you have a Pulse Code Modulated (pcm) Card 0 (C0) Device 0 (D0) Capture (c) device.
Code:
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 2 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D0p

is similar but p is playback. This is your front stereo speakers and input device and is the only entry that is standard.
Code:
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 3 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D2c
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 11 Oct 3 19:51 pcmC0D3p

This is another stereo pair of capture and playback devices. The kernel thinks that this device is four channel surround sound.

Card 1 has 3 stereo playback channels and no capture ability, so its probably intended for 5.1 surround.
The 5.1 and lack of any capture devices suggests that this is your HDMI output.

Play with
Code:
alsamixer -c0
and
Code:
alsamixer -c1
if you haven't already.
HDMI will only have a mute switch. No other controls.

Its not always that clear cut. snd-hda-intel is not always very good at idnetifying the hardware it finds. /dev/snd shows how things are set up now.
Read /usr/src/linux/Documentation/sound/alsa/
ALSA-Configuration.txt
HD-Audio-Controls.txt
HD-Audio-Models.txt
HD-Audio.txt

You may need to pass snd-hda-intel model= at load time so it identifies your card correctly.
I think both of your cards need the same module which complicates things still further.

In the interests of starting out simply (the KISS principle), disable the HDMI sound in the BIOS if you can. Then you will only have one sound card to play with.
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rabcor
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, that was very informative, i'll have to bookmark this for future reference. right now i'm in the middle of trying to make this stuff work properly, with alsa mixer i was able to set it to 6 channels. but my soundtest file is all wrong (speakers are wrongly located, front left and right both come up as center speaker, etc, etc, but my speaker-test does give me correct results, so i'll have to think a bit about this. maybe it'll just fix itself once i get rid of other devices.) i'm working on that right now, i already checked and found my bios wont allow me to disable my hdmi sound, naturally because its part of my GPU, but the kernel does, so i'll disable it there, and i'll also set my soundcard to load at boot time to see what results i'll get.

Anyways, i am now emerging the latest stable kernel (3.4.9) and re-configuring it.

Thank you so much for all the help, and information you've given me! i'll put it to good use and it'll probably be helpful to me plenty of times in the future! i think it'd be safe to say my personal sound problems have been solved, even if the original problem of the thread was not, my guess is i could've fixed at least one part of it using alsamixer by setting it to use 6 channels instead of 2.
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