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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:11 am Post subject: Respect for the commander in chief. |
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihbZbtR93o9-Opi9lfJDwKcXBHaw?docId=479a648ba3884a528cc6b39135a9f241
| Quote: | WASHINGTON (AP) — A group of retired special operations and CIA officers who claim President Barack Obama revealed secret missions and turned the killing of Osama bin Laden into a campaign centerpiece are coming under criticism from some of their own.
Some special operations officers say the activist veterans are breaking a sacred military creed: respect for the commander in chief.
"This is an unprofessional, shameful action on the part of the operators that appear in the video, period," U.S. Army Special Forces Maj. Fernando Lujan wrote on his Facebook page, to a chorus of approval from colleagues. |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Hrm... Not quite sure where I stand on this. |
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 231
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Veterans should have every right as anyone else. Active personnel on the other hand are constrained in their speech and activity.
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| If these veterans are prior service, then nobody should give a fuck about what they yell. It's the active duty ones who should be careful. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Respect is earned, and he has failed to do so.
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In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Hrm... Not quite sure where I stand on this. |
Simple. This sounds like a gag order. "Thou shalt not speak against thy dear leaderum."
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Respect is earned, and he has failed to do so. |
If they're active duty, then respect is commanded. |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | If these veterans are prior service, then nobody should give a fuck about what they yell. It's the active duty ones who should be careful. |
From the OP :
| Quote: | | A group of retired special operations and CIA officers who claim President Barack Obama revealed secret missions and turned the killing of Osama bin Laden into a campaign centerpiece are coming under criticism from some of their own. |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Well then what's the fuss about? Look, these are the guys who are single most responsible for eliminating jihadist nutjobs. For those of you with your heads up your asses, that means we're just a tad safer back home. As far as I'm concerned, they have more right to run their mouths than anyone else.
Oh and what's this sacred creed for respecting the commander in chief once you're out? |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | Respect is earned, and he has failed to do so. |
If they're active duty, then respect is commanded. |
Protocol is commanded.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1196
Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Well in this case, nothing is commanded. They aren't active duty anymore. |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, this is another fake issue. Anyone out of the military, or retired from the military can point out what a colossal phuckup Obamao is. There is no controversy here. It's pretty well known that outside of the upper echelons of the Navy (many democrats there), the military can't stand this Buffoon In Chief.
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BoneKracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1480
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Respect is earned, and he has failed to do so. |
++
This is the central issue right here.
Even being unworthy of respect isn't enough to cause this, though. Clinton wasn't worthy of respect from the military either, but nobody went this far.
Obama is worse that just not having earned respect; he has been a bad leader, demonstrating that he places so little value on their welfare that he will jeopardize their lives, get men killed, and destroy years of hard-fought gains for nothing but a temporary gain in his personal popularity among the un-informed.
Military people are taught loyalty to the chain of command, but such loyalty can go too far. That's how the system fails itself sometimes, allowing bad leaders to be retained and advanced. There is another such case going on as we speak: the Army just fired the AFRICOM Commanding General, 4-star General Kip Ward, for widespread ethics violations and an abusive command climate. One wonders how he got that far, with this kind of behavior. His "punishment" will be retirement at a lower pay grade (like two-star).
As to active-duty versus retired or "formerly", I think the active-duty people rely on their predecessors (whether they know it or not) to help represent their needs and issues in ways active duty cannot without causing morale problems within the ranks.
Some of this is exactly what these describe in their name: education. The public needs to understand certain things they may not know. A good example is something I've been harping on: you simply do not tell your enemy in advance when you are going to give up the fight and pull out. But that's minor compared to revealing (for personal gain) the operational and tactical details of covert operations, or worse still, blowing (for personal gain) the cover of deeply infiltrated covert operatives on the verge of culminating a years-long effort that would bring down several high-value targets.
I'm sorry, but that kind of crap simply cannot be tolerated, from anybody.
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | the Army just fired the AFRICOM Commanding General, 4-star General Kip Ward, for widespread ethics violations and an abusive command climate. One wonders how he got that far, with this kind of behavior. His "punishment" will be retirement at a lower pay grade (like two-star). |
I wonder if this is another one of those political firings. If so, I'd love to see a reinstatement, just once. That said, ethics violations and abusive command climate doesn't seem like the way to go.
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