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sugar
Guru
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Morrinsville, New Zealand
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 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | Muso wrote: |
It doesn't use the word Obamacare, |
honesty is the best policy
but you mentioned obamacare. from the wording of your subject you'd think obamacare was every second word of that article. Wasn't I surprised when it wasn't mentioned EVEN ONCE. Presumably if there beef was with primarily Obamacare they would say so explicitly. |
The individual mandate is specifically mentioned. Obamacare is the mandate, plus all of the other government bullshit that is causing the problem. |
Because the survey is leading, and only those doctors that have a strong opinion answered the survey (i.e. only 2% of them).
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 756
Location: EU
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | Muso wrote: |
It doesn't use the word Obamacare, |
honesty is the best policy
but you mentioned obamacare. from the wording of your subject you'd think obamacare was every second word of that article. Wasn't I surprised when it wasn't mentioned EVEN ONCE. Presumably if there beef was with primarily Obamacare they would say so explicitly. |
The individual mandate is specifically mentioned. Obamacare is the mandate, plus all of the other government bullshit that is causing the problem. |
ok. one part of obamacare was mentioned, but the rest is about the whole mess.
still makes your subject misleading. |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | Muso wrote: |
It doesn't use the word Obamacare, |
honesty is the best policy
but you mentioned obamacare. from the wording of your subject you'd think obamacare was every second word of that article. Wasn't I surprised when it wasn't mentioned EVEN ONCE. Presumably if there beef was with primarily Obamacare they would say so explicitly. |
The individual mandate is specifically mentioned. Obamacare is the mandate, plus all of the other government bullshit that is causing the problem. |
ok. one part of obamacare was mentioned, but the rest is about the whole mess.
still makes your subject misleading. |
How? Did you read the Obamacare bill? Everything it does is exactly what the doctor's complaints are based upon. The reason more and more are going to stop accepting Medicaid/care patients than they do now is because of what Obamacare has done to those programs... making them much worse.
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1487
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | lets see - the USA spent the most money in the world for one of the worst services. And now that Obama tries to get some sanity into the mess those who get rich with the current scheme protest.
No surprise.
That some of the ameritards in this board still believe that Obama was wrong, THAT is surprising - and can only explained with mass bouncing of reality checks. |
Obama is not wrong that health care reform is required here. What's wrong is what he chose to do about it. His program is not at all focused on such issues (cost, efficiency, quality); it's all about spread the wealth. Not only that, but what it does manage to achieve in terms of spread the wealth it does so by increasing costs, lowering quality, reducing services, creating massive bureaucracy, and in general, magnifying the problems we already have. For example, his solution is a corporatist Frankenstein monster which guarantees certain levels of profit to pharmaceutical corporations and health care insurance corporations.
Many of the bits and pieces of the program that are universally agreed upon, such as coverage of pre-existing conditions, are not opposed by anybody and would end up in any solution. They therefore also do not justify this abomination (even if they are featured heavily in Obama's advertisements).
The fact that we do indeed have a problem (which everybody agrees on) is not evidence that Obama's solution is right.
The U.S.A. also spends far more per student on its public schools that everybody else, and is now 19th in results. Clearly, we must nationalize the entire school system, centralize it with Federal Funding, and integrate it with the Patriotic Comrade Youth and Denounce Your Fishy Neighbor programs!
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 231
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | lets see - the USA spent the most money in the world for one of the worst services. |
Worst services. 
I've always had quick thorough service from my doctor.
But if you have any personal experience with US health care to the contrary, please inform us.
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | lets see - the USA spent the most money in the world for one of the worst services. |
Worst services.
I've always had quick thorough service from my doctor.
But if you have any personal experience with US health care to the contrary, please inform us. |
energyman76b's doktor is the one in Human Centipede.
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 756
Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | lets see - the USA spent the most money in the world for one of the worst services. |
Worst services.
I've always had quick thorough service from my doctor.
But if you have any personal experience with US health care to the contrary, please inform us. |
i had:
1) expensive insurance
2) great doctor and facilities
3) opaque as hell pricing for absolutely everything
lived in one of the best cities for medical care, great employer + insurer.
all my fellow employees (who came from all over the US) said the care was totally atypical. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Opaque pricing seems an odd descriptor.
I've not worked with anyone who complained about their care. Only what they had to pay for it. Strangely, they had plenty of money for other necessities like Pay TV, internet, mobile phones, nice cars. Some even frequenting live events for about the same price as a co-pay.
Your experience doesn't sound at all atypical.
However, for those without insurance, it is very different. ER care is just that. For emergencies. What is provided is to stop the emegency. And ER care is very expensive, so relying on it for anything that isn't an emegency is a misuse of money.
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | Opaque pricing seems an odd descriptor.
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I had to see a physio and nobody could tell me beforehand how much I would be out of pocket. Not my in network physios and not my insurance company.
My wife had a so-so doctor. Actually, kind of bad. Mine was great though.
when I remarked to my friends that I thought the care was really good, they said that we were in one of the largest medical research centres in the world, which helps. They said care can be patchy in much smaller places. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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There is good and bad care everywhere. One must use some brains in selecting a physician. I always research their qualifications before picking one.
Also, employers will typically offer a range of health insurance options, and to some extent, you get what you pay for. A single guy 30 years old can skimp; a married couple having children can't.
My first employer after I got out of the Army provided what would be considered a "Cadillac Health Insurance" plan. I could go anywhere for service, on a whim, and I don't think I ever paid anything out of pocket except $5 or $10 each service. I'd go into the doctor's and the clerk would take my insurance card, say "Hey, wow. This is really good insurance you know." I believe one hit on me specifically because of it.
Since then I've had pretty typical health insurance, with which employers have become less generous as costs have climbed, but I have generally opted for better than average coverage.
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | I had to see a physio and nobody could tell me beforehand how much I would be out of pocket. Not my in network physios and not my insurance company. |
Some of that depends on what is being done, doesn't it? Or if it is a fixed procedure, it is a known cost. How much you pay is based on your coverage. Your employer should have provided that info when you signed up. Elective procedures have different if any coverage. Maybe that was where the doubt came in.
| juniper wrote: | | y wife had a so-so doctor. Actually, kind of bad. Mine was great though. |
Which is going to happen in any system.
As for smaller places, that's to be expected. Everything is less available in smaller places. That's why people move there.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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small place: three dogs pissing on the same fire hydrant
big place: three hundred dogs pissing pissing on the same fifty fire hydrants
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | There is good and bad care everywhere. One must use some brains in selecting a physician. I always research their qualifications before picking one.
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My primary care physician had to be picked from a handful at one place. I was lucky, I had a great one.
Of course there will be good and bad. |
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pjp
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | My primary care physician had to be picked from a handful at one place. |
You had some really weird insurance. When was it?
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 756
Location: EU
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | My primary care physician had to be picked from a handful at one place. |
You had some really weird insurance. When was it? |
2006-2007 |
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BoneKracker
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | There is good and bad care everywhere. One must use some brains in selecting a physician. I always research their qualifications before picking one.
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My primary care physician had to be picked from a handful at one place. I was lucky, I had a great one. |
That's an acquaintance of mine who works for a Health Care Provider in the Southeast refers to as an NHMO ("nigger health maintenance organization"). The worst are like "McDoctor"; they assign you a "primary care physician", but when you go in you end up seeing whoever is available, and you're lucky if you are actually in the presence of a real doctor for more than a few minutes.
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