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mcgruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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This is just stupid. Why did I try to explain what was going on? So that you might understand it better.
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slonocode
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | This is just stupid. Why did I try to explain what was going on? So that you might understand it better. |
You've explained very well that they wanted Danny to ask nicely. However that explanation raises questions that you are unwilling or unable to answer. You poor thing. Sometimes my 8 year old nephew will engage in debate and after all his arguments are dismantled he will declare "This is just stupid". |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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No it really is stupid. You asked why would they be upset at someone who is hell bent on destroying their professional reputation by branding them incompetents and liars who have falsified science? Well gee I just don't know.
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Clad in Sky wrote: | | That is exactly the problem. There'll always be something or other that seems to forbid to "pull back hard on carbon". |
Right, but that doesn't mean you should do nothing.
| Clad in Sky wrote: | | The developing countries have the chance to develop in a more ecologically friendly way than the Western Europe and the US did, because the technology is around, unlike it was when industrialization started and really no one bothered what you fuelled your engines with. |
And how much is that going to cost them economically? China has a footprint in the solar industry. Their middle-class and higher are buying the same vehicles as everyone else (US, Euro, Japanese/Korean).
| Clad in Sky wrote: | | The moment anyone would propose to go green at that moment |
And it should never happen "at that moment." As I said, we should be doing some stuff now. And when it makes sense, more stuff later. The "switch to green" will happen naturally if it is possible.
It is ignorant to think it has to be all or nothing. That's why Kyoto was such a joke.
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slonocode
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | No it really is stupid. You asked why would they be upset at someone who is hell bent on destroying their professional reputation by branding them incompetents and liars who have falsified science? Well gee I just don't know. |
I've asked quite a few questions that you fail to answer and yet you persist on answering a question I did not ask. I do not care whether they would be upset that Danny didn't ask nicely. I don't care if Danny called them "as ignorant as mcgruff" and demanded instead of asked. If the data and conclusion are sound it doesn't matter who they give the data too.
If you are just going to play evasive ignorance games then I think everyone can agree with my 8 year old nephew and you that this is just stupid. |
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mcgruff
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 28 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Apparently you think you have some kind of point to make. You don't.
It's really very simple.
1. Blowhard with a blog attacks climate scientists.
2. Climate scientists tell him to fuck off.
3. Climate scientists work is confirmed to be of good quality.
4. Legions of gullible idiots prolong the controversy about bad science and falsified results long after it was shown to be bullshit.
So it goes.
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slonocode
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | Apparently you think you have some kind of point to make. You don't.
It's really very simple.
1. Blowhard with a blog attacks climate scientists.
2. Climate scientists tell him to fuck off.
3. Climate scientists work is confirmed to be of good quality.
4. Legions of gullible idiots prolong the controversy about bad science and falsified results long after it was shown to be bullshit.
So it goes. |
Hmm. The were "puzzled' by a request "out the blue" and then they are badass telling people to fuck off. They were 100% correct in not wanting to hand over the data and then they are somehow prevented from handing it over. The data is so sound and the conclusions so obvious that handing it over to a skeptic is downright suicide. Shall we keep playing... |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry if all the subtleties have escaped you but I did try to explain. Let me try again with this one (your words): "The data is so sound and the conclusions so obvious that handing it over to a skeptic is downright suicide."
UEA emails were hacked some time after McUntyre's requests. They included various informal conversations between climate scientists, including comments such as "hide the decline" and "Mike's nature trick" which, although they were perfectly innocent, were seized upon at the time to mean something they didn't (the alleged "climategate" affair). It was bullshit, but still it gave the deniers a propaganda coup. There are still people to this day who think that data was manipulated and the peer review process was tainted.
The affair of the hacked emails shows how innocent facts can be exploited by malicious individuals to attack honest scientists. People like McUntyre are constantly on the hunt for ammunition. It is wise not to give it to them. He does not care if the work is sound. He will still find some way to attack it, some fake controversy to create which will linger on in the minds of gullible idiots long after it has been proven to be bullshit. That's how he operates.
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slonocode
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | I'm sorry if all the subtleties have escaped you but I did try to explain. Let me try again with this one (your words): "The data is so sound and the conclusions so obvious that handing it over to a skeptic is downright suicide."
UEA emails were hacked some time after McUntyre's requests. They included various informal conversations between climate scientists, including comments such as "hide the decline" and "Mike's nature trick" which, although they were perfectly innocent, were seized upon at the time to mean something they didn't (the alleged "climategate" affair). It was bullshit, but still it gave the deniers a propaganda coup. There are still people to this day who think that data was manipulated and the peer review process was tainted.
The affair of the hacked emails shows how innocent facts can be exploited by malicious individuals to attack honest scientists. People like McUntyre are constantly on the hunt for ammunition. It is wise not to give it to them. He does not care if the work is sound. He will still find some way to attack it, some fake controversy to create which will linger on in the minds of gullible idiots long after it has been proven to be bullshit. That's how he operates. |
I'm sorry the simple logic hitting you in the face doesn't stop you from ignoring it. If you want to show that your science is sound you do not refuse to show it to people you don't like. You work open and transparent. You don't refuse requests because Danny didn't ask nicely. You don't refuse requests because they are "out of the blue". Those are YOUR WORDS by the way. Your words are what I am dismantling. You claim they didn't want to hand over the data and then when that gets dismantled you claim they were prevented from it. Shall we keep playing... |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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It is unheard of for scientists to bludgeon their colleagues with FOI requests. That is not how science is done. It doesn't really matter what you think should have happened it is simply a matter of record - see the hacked emails and various press statements - that they were angry at McUntyres antics, that they viewed this as deliberate harassment, and that they were not motivated to assist him in his efforts to attack climate science in general and themselves in particular. What else would you expect?
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slonocode
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | It is unheard of for scientists to bludgeon their colleagues with FOI requests. That is not how science is done. It doesn't really matter what you think should have happened it is simply a matter of record - see the hacked emails and various press statements - that they were angry at McUntyres antics, that they viewed this as deliberate harassment, and that they were not motivated to assist him in his efforts to attack climate science in general and themselves in particular. What else would you expect? |
What I do expect is that an internet blowhard such as yourself will make claims and then ignore when those get dismantled. To ignore questions and answer questions that weren't asked.
What I don't expect is for data to be withheld because Danny didn't ask nicely. Or wait was it because they were prevented from handing it over? |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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What exactly do you think you have "dismantled"?
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Stand Down! It's Climate Scyents Man!
Only he has teh Scyents!
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BonezTheGoon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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I read by one scientist that it is quite possible that human generated global warming could very well be saving us from an impending ice age that would obliterate the entire planet.
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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We're already in an ice age, in an interglacial. The next glacial episode won't "obliterate the entire planet" but, yes, it will be affected by anthropogenic warming. If the music of the glacial cycles is a string quartet playing in the background, AGW is like a loud rock band with Marshall stacks turned up to 11 bursting onto the scene.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | We're already in an ice age, in an interglacial. The next glacial episode won't "obliterate the entire planet" but, yes, it will be affected by anthropogenic warming. If the music of the glacial cycles is a string quartet playing in the background, AGW is like a loud rock band with Marshall stacks turned up to 11 bursting onto the scene. |
Not so. Temperature variations during the Quaternary Ice Age are estimated based on Vostok Ice Core proxies to have had a 12 degree (C) variance, ranging from approximately three degrees above current global average surface temperature to approximately nine degrees below it.
And that's just the glacial/interglacial period. We also have the possible end of the ice age itself to consider (or "icehouse earth" state, if you are one of those who prefer to call glacial periods "ice ages"). Life on Earth has flourished during greenhouse earth states. Right now we are actually deep in an ice age: it started about 34 million years ago, with the ice caps only forming about 2 million years ago. So, if the ice caps are melting, we should be celebrating. Provided we can adapt, it means life will be more abundant (i.e. food will be more abundant). While it may require migration and major adaptation, global warming might be the only possible miracle that could save us from massive deprivation, suffering, and self-extermination due to overpopulation.
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Not so. Temperature variations during the Quaternary Ice Age are estimated based on Vostok Ice Core proxies to have had a 12 degree (C) variance, ranging from approximately three degrees above current global average surface temperature to approximately nine degrees below it. |
Way so. With 5000 gigatonnes or more of carbon, there will be no glacial for at least half a million years. Orbital forcing is pretty weak, and is amplified by feedbacks to produce the glacials.
| Quote: | | Provided we can adapt, it means life will be more abundant (i.e. food will be more abundant). |
Lol. Sources?
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Old School
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | Provided we can adapt, it means life will be more abundant (i.e. food will be more abundant). |
Lol. Sources? |
History. The last time CO2 and temperature levels were at the levels some predict, flora and fauna were more abundant than at the present times.
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Last edited by Old School on Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | So, if the ice caps are melting, we should be celebrating. Provided we can adapt, it means life will be more abundant (i.e. food will be more abundant). |
You do realise that the majority of food we eat is *above* sea level, right?
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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Old School
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| aidanjt wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | So, if the ice caps are melting, we should be celebrating. Provided we can adapt, it means life will be more abundant (i.e. food will be more abundant). |
You do realise that the majority of food we eat is *above* sea level, right? |
It ain't gonna be Noah's Flood.
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | It ain't gonna be Noah's Flood. |
Actually, Noah's flood would be a picnic if the ice caps melted.
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | History. The last time CO2 and temperature levels were at the levels some predict, flora and fauna were more abundant than at the present times. |
That's a simple-minded fallacy, not science. Do you know how long it takes to restore biodiversity after the kind of species loss we're in line for? A period of the order of tens of millions of years. In fifty million years, the species homo sapiens won't even be around to enjoy your brave new world.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v404/n6774/abs/404177a0.html
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BonezTheGoon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | turned up to 11 bursting onto the scene. |
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Ahenobarbi
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| [Oh stop it you I'm supposed to study, not to make fun of internets who can't write a post without word "science" in it] |
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Old School
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | Old School wrote: | | History. The last time CO2 and temperature levels were at the levels some predict, flora and fauna were more abundant than at the present times. |
That's a simple-minded fallacy, not science. Do you know how long it takes to restore biodiversity after the kind of species loss we're in line for? A period of the order of tens of millions of years. In fifty million years, the species homo sapiens won't even be around to enjoy your brave new world.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v404/n6774/abs/404177a0.html |
C'est la vie.
Last I checked, the universe never promised us a rose garden.
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