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Muso
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: SEALs slam Obama |
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SEALs slam Obama for using them as 'ammunition' in bid to take credit for bin Laden killing during election campaign
| Quote: | Serving and former US Navy SEALs have slammed President Barack Obama for taking the credit for killing Osama bin Laden and accused him of using Special Forces operators as ‘ammunition’ for his re-election campaign.
The SEALs spoke out to MailOnline after the Obama campaign released an ad entitled ‘One Chance’.
In it President Bill Clinton is featured saying that Mr Obama took ‘the harder and the more honourable path’ in ordering that bin Laden be killed. The words ‘Which path would Mitt Romney have taken?’ are then displayed.
Besides the ad, the White House is marking the first anniversary of the SEAL Team Six raid that killed bin Laden inside his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan with a series of briefings and an NBC interview in the Situation Room designed to highlight the ‘gutsy call’ made by the President.
Mr Obama used a news conference today to trumpet his personal role and imply that his Republican opponent Mr Romney, who in 2008 expressed reservations about the wisdom of sending troops into Pakistan, would have let bin Laden live.
‘I said that I'd go after bin Laden if we had a clear shot at him, and I did,’ Mr Obama said. ‘If there are others who have said one thing and now suggest they'd do something else, then I'd go ahead and let them explain it.’
Ryan Zinke, a former Commander in the US Navy who spent 23 years as a SEAL and led a SEAL Team 6 assault unit, said: ‘The decision was a no brainer. I applaud him for making it but I would not overly pat myself on the back for making the right call.
‘I think every president would have done the same. He is justified in saying it was his decision but the preparation, the sacrifice - it was a broader team effort.’
Mr Zinke, who is now a Republican state senator in Montana, added that MR Obama was exploiting bin Laden’s death for his re-election bid. ‘The President and his administration are positioning him as a war president using the SEALs as ammunition. It was predictable.’
Mr Obama has faced criticism even from allies about his decision to make a campaign ad about the bin Laden raid. Arianna Huffington, an outspoken liberal who runs the left-leaning Huffington Post website, roundly condemned it.
She told CBS: ‘We should celebrate the fact that they did such a great job. It's one thing to have an NBC special from the Situation Room... all that to me is perfectly legitimate, but to turn it into a campaign ad is one of the most despicable things you can do.’
Campaigning in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Mr Romney responded to a shouted question by a reporter by saying: ‘Even Jimmy Carter would have given that order.’
A serving SEAL Team member said: ‘Obama wasn’t in the field, at risk, carrying a gun. As president, at every turn he should be thanking the guys who put their lives on the line to do this. He does so in his official speeches because he speechwriters are smart.
‘But the more he tries to take the credit for it, the more the ground operators are saying, “Come on, man!” It really didn’t matter who was president. At the end of the day, they were going to go.’
Chris Kyle, a former SEAL sniper with 160 confirmed and another 95 unconfirmed kills to his credit, said: ‘The operation itself was great and the nation felt immense pride. It was great that we did it.
‘But bin Laden was just a figurehead. The war on terror continues. Taking him out didn’t really change anything as far as the war on terror is concerned and using it as a political attack is a cheap shot.
‘In years to come there is going to be information that will come out that Obama was not the man who made the call. He can say he did and the people who really know what happened are inside the Pentagon, are in the military and the military isn’t allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief so his secret is safe.’
Senior military figures have said that Admiral William McRaven, a former SEAL who was then head of Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) made the decision to take bin Laden out. Tactical decisions were delegated even further down the chain of command.
Mr Kyle added: ‘He's trying to say that Romney wouldn't have made the same call? Anyone who is patriotic to this country would have made that exact call, Democrat or Republican. Obama is taking more credit than he is due but it's going to get him some pretty good mileage.’
A former intelligence official who was serving in the US government when bin Laden was killed said that the Obama administration knew about the al-Qaeda leader’s whereabouts in October 2010 but delayed taking action and risked letting him escape.
‘In the end, Obama was forced to make a decision and do it. He knew that if he didn’t do it the political risks in not taking action were huge. Mitt Romney would have made the call but he would have made it earlier – as would George W. Bush.’
Brandon Webb, a former SEAL who spent 13 years on active duty and served in Iraq and Afghanistan, said: ‘Bush should get partial credit for putting the system in place.
‘Obama inherited a very robust package with regards to special ops and the intelligence community. But Obama deserves credit because he got bin Laden – you can’t take that away from him.
‘My friends that work in Special Operations Command (SOCOM) that have been on video teleconferences with Obama on these kill or capture situations say that Obama has no issue whatsoever with making decisions and typically it's kill. He’s hitting the kill button every time. I have a lot of respect for him for that.’
But he said that many SEALs were dismayed about the amount of publicity the Obama administration had generated about SEAL Team Six, the very existence of which is highly classified.
‘The majority of the SEALs I know are really proud of the operation but it does become “OK, enough is enough – we’re ready to get back to work and step out of the limelight.” They don’t want to be continuously paraded around a global audience like a show dog.
‘Obama has a very good relationship with the Special Operations community at large, especially the SEALs, and it’s nice to see. We had the same relationship with George W. Bush when he was president.’
It was ‘stretching a little much’ for Mr Obama to suggest only he would have made the decision. ‘I personally I don't think Romney would have any problem making tough decisions. He got a very accomplished record of making decision as a business professional.
‘He may not have charisma but he clearly has leadership skills. I don’t think he'd have any problem taking that decision.’
Clint Bruce, who gave up the chance of an NFL career to serve as a SEAL officer before retiring as a lieutenant after nine years, said: ‘We were extremely surprised and discouraged by the publicity because it compromises the ability of those guys to operate.
‘It’s a waste of time to speculate about who would and wouldn’t have made that decision. It was a symphony of opportunity and intelligence that allowed this administration to give the green light. We want to acknowledge that they made that decision.
‘Politicians should let the public know where they stand on national security but not in the play-by-play, detailed way that has been done recently. The intricacies of national security should not become part of stump speeches.’ |
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Old School
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Does one think that Obummer will run on his record?
Okay. He made one good executive decision. Time to take a vacation.
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Limbaugh said he had to get called in from the golf course to watch the tactical display in the White House. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:01 am Post subject: |
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I guess they'll all need to be kicked out.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if mcgruff will have the manhood to actually read this article. I say not.
| Quote: | Arianna Huffington, an outspoken liberal who runs the left-leaning Huffington Post website, roundly condemned it.
She told CBS: ‘We should celebrate the fact that they did such a great job. It's one thing to have an NBC special from the Situation Room... all that to me is perfectly legitimate, but to turn it into a campaign ad is one of the most despicable things you can do.’ |
Doh! I smell Backfire!
This is what I mentioned yesterday:
| Quote: | | Campaigning in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Mr Romney responded to a shouted question by a reporter by saying: ‘Even Jimmy Carter would have given that order.’ |
Here's one for dmitchell: 
| Quote: | | ‘My friends that work in Special Operations Command (SOCOM) that have been on video teleconferences with Obama on these kill or capture situations say that Obama has no issue whatsoever with making decisions and typically it's kill. He’s hitting the kill button every time. I have a lot of respect for him for that.’ |
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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The right would still find something to complain about if Obama flew to the compound alone and shot Bin Laden himself.
| Quote: | | ‘But the more he tries to take the credit for it, the more the ground operators are saying, “Come on, man!” It really didn’t matter who was president. At the end of the day, they were going to go.’ |
If Bush was still president, Bin Laden would probably still be sending videotapes. [/joke] |
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wildhorse
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
Oblabla killed Bin Laden and Bush accomplished shit
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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You need medical attention.
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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*couldntbeassedtoreadarticle* so some fat sea mammal hit Obama - and that is news? Wake me up when he is bitten by a penguin.
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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This is all so f*cking stupid. The extreme right has become completely detached from reality. They know how to push the buttons of their hard-core, batshit-crazy fan base but not anybody else. Can you guess where that will lead? Yup: another term for Obama.
Keep up the good work 
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Old School
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | This is all so f*cking stupid. The extreme right has become completely detached from reality. They know how to push the buttons of their hard-core, batshit-crazy fan base but not anybody else. Can you guess where that will lead? Yup: another term for Obama.
Keep up the good work |
Such a faithful little drone.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | This is all so f*cking stupid. The extreme right has become completely detached from reality. |
Everybody who has read your torrent of uninformed nonsense on this subject knows who is really "detached from reality". You got just about everything wrong, from top to bottom. As the truth has come out, your elaborate little fantasy about how this went down and Obama's role within it has turned out, almost line by line, be to have been based on something other than fact. And, everybody knows it. You're not fooling anybody. So put a cork in it, Kool-Aid boy. 
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Muso
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | This is all so f*cking stupid. The extreme right has become completely detached from reality. |
Extreme right? These are Navy SEALs.
To see who is actually detached from reality, try looking in a mirror.
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richk449
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Limbaugh said he had to get called in from the golf course to watch the tactical display in the White House. |
Did he mention what he ate for lunch? Or what the weather was like? Because I am really curious. |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: |
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@Muso
Yeah republican state senators are so impartial when they talk about democrats.
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Muso
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | @Muso
Yeah republican state senators are so impartial when they talk about democrats. |
A serving SEAL Team member said: ‘Obama wasn’t in the field, at risk, carrying a gun. As president, at every turn he should be thanking the guys who put their lives on the line to do this. He does so in his official speeches because he speechwriters are smart. ‘But the more he tries to take the credit for it, the more the ground operators are saying, “Come on, man!” It really didn’t matter who was president. At the end of the day, they were going to go.’
Chris Kyle, a former SEAL sniper with 160 confirmed and another 95 unconfirmed kills to his credit, said: ‘The operation itself was great and the nation felt immense pride. It was great that we did it. ‘But bin Laden was just a figurehead. The war on terror continues. Taking him out didn’t really change anything as far as the war on terror is concerned and using it as a political attack is a cheap shot. ‘In years to come there is going to be information that will come out that Obama was not the man who made the call. He can say he did and the people who really know what happened are inside the Pentagon, are in the military and the military isn’t allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief so his secret is safe.’
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pjp
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | the military isn’t allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief |
Well, it would seem some are allowed and some aren't.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | @Muso
Yeah republican state senators are so impartial when they talk about democrats. |
A serving SEAL Team member said: ‘Obama wasn’t in the field, at risk, carrying a gun. As president, at every turn he should be thanking the guys who put their lives on the line to do this. He does so in his official speeches because he speechwriters are smart. ‘But the more he tries to take the credit for it, the more the ground operators are saying, “Come on, man!” It really didn’t matter who was president. At the end of the day, they were going to go.’
Chris Kyle, a former SEAL sniper with 160 confirmed and another 95 unconfirmed kills to his credit, said: ‘The operation itself was great and the nation felt immense pride. It was great that we did it. ‘But bin Laden was just a figurehead. The war on terror continues. Taking him out didn’t really change anything as far as the war on terror is concerned and using it as a political attack is a cheap shot. ‘In years to come there is going to be information that will come out that Obama was not the man who made the call. He can say he did and the people who really know what happened are inside the Pentagon, are in the military and the military isn’t allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief so his secret is safe.’ |
Yeah, but Obama and Slick Silly said otherwise, and they just ooze integrity.
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Muso
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Yeah, but Obama and Slick Silly said otherwise, and they just ooze integrity. |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | A serving SEAL Team member... |
Would you ask a taxi driver to explain the city's transport policy? I don't doubt he'd be delighted to regale you with everything that's wrong in the whole damn world and not just his city. Bit out of his pay grade though.
I wonder how many refusals they had before they found someone willing to talk? If you trawl through any organisation you'll eventually find a couple of cranky, democrat-hating guys.
If I want to assess the political ramifications of an assassination mission on foreign soil I'm not going to consult with a gung-ho action man who lives for that kind of thing. Everybody keeps missing the point: this was a political decision not a military one, and political decisions of this kind are made by high-ranking politicians.
It's complete bullshit to try to say that anyone would have done the same thing. Bush didn't. He had a much more certain location for Bin Laden at Tora Bora compared to Obama's 50:50 in Abbottabad. What did he do? He let him go. He dropped a few bombs but he didn't put any boots on the ground despite requests for more men and so the way was clear for hundreds of Al Qaeda to wander off into Pakistan.
And then, he started a whole new war in Iraq (!) which bled vital resources away from the hunt for Bin Laden. Saddam Hussein was a threat to his own people not to the US. Bin Laden, on the other hand, was a dangerous enemy still in the field.
You just couldn't make that up. Utterly spectacular, bungling, idiocy and incompetence. If they were all Al Qaeda double agents they couldn't have done any more to help Bin Laden.
It's funny how everybody and their mother steps forward after the fact to say; "yeah that's what I wouldda done too. Just like that. Obvious innit?" But it's not so obvious when you're in the hot seat taking the decisions. Even if we set aside the Bush regime's spectacular bungling, not every president would have made the same call. A cautious man might have decided the risks were too great and waited for more intel. A gung-ho bungler man might have ordered a cruise missile strike.
To a certain extent Obama was lucky, of course. The 50:50 chance that Bin Laden was in the compound landed heads up but it might not have.
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | @Muso
Yeah republican state senators are so impartial when they talk about democrats. |
A serving SEAL Team member said: ‘Obama wasn’t in the field, at risk, carrying a gun. As president, at every turn he should be thanking the guys who put their lives on the line to do this. He does so in his official speeches because he speechwriters are smart. ‘But the more he tries to take the credit for it, the more the ground operators are saying, “Come on, man!” It really didn’t matter who was president. At the end of the day, they were going to go.’
Chris Kyle, a former SEAL sniper with 160 confirmed and another 95 unconfirmed kills to his credit, said: ‘The operation itself was great and the nation felt immense pride. It was great that we did it. ‘But bin Laden was just a figurehead. The war on terror continues. Taking him out didn’t really change anything as far as the war on terror is concerned and using it as a political attack is a cheap shot. ‘In years to come there is going to be information that will come out that Obama was not the man who made the call. He can say he did and the people who really know what happened are inside the Pentagon, are in the military and the military isn’t allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief so his secret is safe.’ |
and that is Obama bashing - how? Has Obama stopped funding the military? Scaled back money for homeland security? CIA? FBI? Has Obama ever claimed that he killed bin Laden?
No?
Then you guys should all stop this nonesense. McGruff is the only one making any sense.
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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It can't have been more than a day afterwards when all the right-wing commentators started their attack on Obama. "Obama just got out of the way, blah blah." and BK put on his new signature.
Right-wing nuts must turn anything and everything that happens under Obama's watch into an attack instantly. God forbid the right-wing sheep will hear anything good about him. |
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Muso
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Your myopic view is entertaining, pitcrawler. If Obama had simply acted presidential there would be no outrage at his behavior. We have active duty SOCOM personnel that are bothered by his attempts to politicize their work. Obama even named the unit which carried out the mission, and by doing so placed the families of those operators at risk. The SEALs I know here on the islands who were (and still are) highly pissed off at Obama for doing that. It was another stunning example of his complete lack of military experience and his slimy nature to turn everything into a political issue.
And this issue is blowing up in his face. Spiking the football in Kabul has backfired on him greatly. The damage he is doing to his own brand by trying to paint himself as some sort of military guru is impressive.
We had, from day 1 in here, crime dog trying to claim that the community organizer with 0 military experience was the lead guy on the mission. Not only were all of crime dog's 'facts' wrong, but his talking points have even been discredited by the very administration he's carrying water for. The administration admitted that Admiral McRaven was the one who made the call to kill bin Laden. From Leon Panetta "the timing, operational decision making and control are in Admiral McRaven's hands."
Now we even have the former head of the joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Mullen, even coming out against the politicization of the bin Laden killing.
Obama took a mission that had the potential to unify the country a bit, and pissed all over it trying to paint himself as Superman. It's disgraceful, but par for the course for the pathetic community organizer in chief.
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | If Obama had simply acted presidential there would be no outrage at his behavior. |
Very well, but I still don't see how it provoked quite such an outrage. I'd be willing to bet that any president, in an election year, would have attempted to take as much credit for an event like this as they could, and any opposition party would have responded in the same way as the Republicans are. It's about as surprising as seeing the sun rise in the morning. The issue is not all that important at the end of the day. The more important issue is Obama's commitment to getting the troops out of there. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | A serving SEAL Team member... |
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I don't believe I said that. I think you are jizzing in your pants and mis-quoting somebody.
| mcgruff wrote: | | It's complete bullshit to try to say that anyone would have done the same thing. Bush didn't. He had a much more certain location for Bin Laden at Tora Bora compared to Obama's 50:50 in Abbottabad. What did he do? He let him go. He dropped a few bombs but he didn't put any boots on the ground despite requests for more men and so the way was clear for hundreds of Al Qaeda to wander off into Pakistan. |
Wrong. I'll assume you're not trolling, and this is just another demonstration of your absolute dearth of comprehension of military matters.
What Bush did was send in Delta Force. That's pretty much exactly what Obama did (sent in SEAL Team Six). The difference is that, instead of being undefended in the Pakistani equivalent of a little house with a white picket fence, we found that he was deep inside a mountain bunker complex, surrounded by what turned out to be over 3,000 armed fanatics in deep, hardened, prepared defensive positions. The two scenarios are not even comparable. You can't assault a prepared, brigade-sized strong point with a single squad, even if they are Delta Force or SEAL Team Six.
The leader of the Delta Force team requested a likely avenue of egress be blocked by FASCAM (scatterable mines, which can be delivered by aircraft). But the White House forbade this because of the number of innocent lives it would claim. Besides, the other avenues of egress considered "closed" at the time were theoretically blocked by locals assisting us, and in reality, they could not be trusted.
Maybe you should read up on that situation, since you keep flapping your lips about it without knowing what you're talking about.
| mcgruff wrote: | And then, he started a whole new war in Iraq (!) which bled vital resources away from the hunt for Bin Laden. Saddam Hussein was a threat to his own people not to the US. Bin Laden, on the other hand, was a dangerous enemy still in the field.
You just couldn't make that up. Utterly spectacular, bungling, idiocy and incompetence. If they were all Al Qaeda double agents they couldn't have done any more to help Bin Laden. |
The war in Iraq didn't bleed resources away from the hunt for bin Laden. It bled resources away from nation-building in Afghanistan, which was a strategically questionable choice, and which was pretty much orthogonal to capturing bin Laden, particularly after he fled the country.
| mcgruff wrote: | | It's funny how everybody and their mother steps forward after the fact to say; "yeah that's what I wouldda done too. Just like that. Obvious innit?" But it's not so obvious when you're in the hot seat taking the decisions. Even if we set aside the Bush regime's spectacular bungling, not every president would have made the same call. A cautious man might have decided the risks were too great and waited for more intel. A gung-ho bungler man might have ordered a cruise missile strike. |
Republicans generally follow the recommendations of the military experts, just like Obama did. In any case, had Obama ordered a cruise missile strike, nothing would be different. Pakistan couldn't possibly be any more pissed off (in fact, they were more embarrassed and humiliated by this on-the-ground operation than they would have been by yet another missile strike), Democrats would still be dick-dancing around saying "Obama killed bin Laden", and it still wouldn't be making any real difference.
The real question is this: since he took the extra political risk of sending troops into Pakstan, why not be true to his alleged values and bring bin Laden back out with them to face interrogation and trial?
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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Off the Wall
