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BoneKracker
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:56 am Post subject: Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama on Facebook |
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| Quote: | Sgt. Gary Stein, the 26-year-old Marine who learned Wednesday he would be discharged for his online comments criticizing President Barack Obama, wishes he could take it back.
“People ask me, ‘Would you go back and change those words?’ I would most definitely,” Stein told msnbc.com. “I would articulate my point better.”
On March 1, Stein wrote on a closed forum for active-duty meteorologists and oceanographers that he would say "Screw Obama" and not follow all orders from him, according to Courthouse News.
“Obama is the economic enemy,” he wrote in the post. “He is the religious enemy ... He is the ‘fundamentally change’ America enemy … He IS the Domestic Enemy.”
Five minutes later, another Marine took down his post, but not before someone Stein knew took a screen shot and forwarded the comment to Stein’s superiors.
Stein had already been warned about a Facebook page he had started in 2010, which he named Armed Forces Tea Party.
“They said, ‘All we ask is that you write that the views are not that of the Marine Corps or the Department of Defense,’” Stein said. He said he put up the disclaimer that day.
The Facebook page, which had six moderators, including Stein, included posts about contraception, gays in the military, pundit Keith Olbermann and Obama. One post included a photo of Obama with the word, “Jackass” written underneath. Stein said that was not his post.
Service members are, according to Directive 1344 of the Department of Defense, allowed to express personal opinions on political candidates, but not as representatives of the Armed Forces.
Last month, a three-member military panel recommended that he be booted from the Marine Corps. On Wednesday, Brig. Gen. Daniel Yoo accepted their recommendation that Stein be dismissed for violating military law. |
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/25/11396769-marine-who-criticized-obama-on-facebook-i-wish-i-could-take-it-back
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Muso
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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He violated the UCMJ.
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I hate to say it, but I don't believe the rules were unclear to him. He chose to violate those rules.
EDIT: There's a less-than-obvious element here. I heard on Limbaugh's program that Sgt. Stein was a ten year veteran. Being a sergeant after ten years seems a little...slow. I'm wondering if there isn't more at work here, and the Facebook thing was only an official reason. |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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At least now he can be a real man with a real job.
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: Re: Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama on Facebook |
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So, what did he do?
| Quote: | ‘All we ask is that you write that the views are not that of the Marine Corps or the Department of Defense,’” Stein said. He said he put up the disclaimer that day. [...]
Service members are, according to Directive 1344 of the Department of Defense, allowed to express personal opinions on political candidates, but not as representatives of the Armed Forces. |
So, what did he do?
That said, they keep making it easy for people to get out. I wish it was that easy when I was doing my time.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | At least now he can be a real man with a real job. |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:32 am Post subject: |
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You're laughing at me, not with me, aren't you? :lol:
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Marine Discharged for Criticizing Obama on Facebook |
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| pjp wrote: | | So, what did he do? |
If he was an Officer, it would be a violation of UCMJ Article 88: Contempt Toward Officials, which specifically forbids "contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present". But he is enlisted.
He might not have technically violated DoD Directive 1344, in my opinion, since he was in a closed forum. Regardless, it's a clear violation of UCMJ Article 134 (General Article), in that his act was directly prejudicial to good order and discipline, and also in that it is a breach of a custom of the service (the long-standing custom of military members refraining from public political activism, now specifically articulated in the latest version of DoD Directive 1344, which says you shouldn't wear your uniform to a political rally and stuff like that). It might also be argued that it further qualifies in that it brings discredit upon the Marine Corps, although that's arguably not true.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/134.htm
The guy obviously didn't want to serve under the current Commander-in-Chief. The enlisted oath actually says, "Obey the orders of the President of the United States and the officers appointed over me":
| Quote: | | I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. [So help me God.] |
I guess his issue was that he felt there was a conflict between (a) obey the orders of the President; and (b) support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. He literally considers Obama to be a "domestic enemy".
Flapping his lips as he was doesn't do the Marine Corps any good, in terms of morale, confidence in its leadership, willingness to follow orders, and in general "good order and discipline". I don't think punishment of such an individual is really justifiable, but they should probably be administratively separated without delay. It's sort of like being a conscientious objector.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | You're laughing at me, not with me, aren't you? |
I think I was laughing with you. I was picturing you actually meaning that, but realizing that saying it would offend a couple of people, then laughing to yourself and saying it anyway.
Edit: no, I guess you're right; now that I spell it out, I guess I was laughing at you.
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the explanation.
"While not in uniform" has been around for a long time, so it seems like that is really trumped on a whim.
I'm so glad I got out. Freedom of speech should NEVER be abridged ("fire!" is not abridged, just in case someone wanted to go there).
As for saying he wouldn't obey his orders, that's questionable, and quite probably bluster. He'd first have to ignore orders in his direct chain of command.
Of course that's now extended to Corporate America, so we're pretty much done with the 1st Amendment.
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | I think I was laughing with you. I was picturing you actually meaning that, but realizing that saying it would offend a couple of people, then laughing to yourself and saying it anyway.
Edit: no, I guess you're right; now that I spell it out, I guess I was laughing at you. :lol: |
:lol:
Have you seen the most recent episode of Parks and Recreation? Ron Swanson explains to Chris (a mid-level city bureaucrat) that he needs to consider the positives of losing his job: "You would no longer be a government parasite sucking the lifeblood from honest, hardworking people. Instead, you'd contribute to society, like a man." I do love Ron Swanson. :)
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I had a recent conversation something like that with a relative who is approaching retirement after many years of working in government.
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