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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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Location: EU
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 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | runningwithscissors wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | In reality, the moral doesn't make sense, because the pineapple did indeed having something up his sleeve. By challenging the hare to a race, he implied that he would run, but then he did not. So the owl wasn't really wise at all. This fact remains true regardless of the author's declaration of the "moral". |
That inference isn't wrong, but it is irrelevant. The moral of any story is a wise observation or conclusion one can reach from it. Declaring that the moral is that pineapples don't have sleeves implies that the owl is wise for making that observation. |
You say that one must assume the moral to be wise. I say that by doing so, you are violating your own rules about basing one's answers entirely upon the passage alone.
Based upon the passage alone, the moral is nonsense, and the owl is a fool (again, because the pineapple did pull a trick after all, by not even running). At least, this is one interpretation equally valid with yours. Therefore, the question is ambiguous. |
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the moral makes no sense from the passage.
32 million? |
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rtomek
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 210
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | Actually, the official answers do exist, but one of the questions was thrown out for sucking so badly. It was the one that notageek and I both got wrong. All of the other ones have clear and obvious answers that a 10-year-old ought to be able to get.
The official answers were:
6. b. In the order in which events happen
7. c. annoyed
8. c. the owl <---
9. a. suspicious
10. d. They would have been happy to have cheered for a winner.
11. c. has a plan to fool the animals
Several questions ask for somewhat speculative or inductive reasoning based on empathy or an understanding of psychology, neither of which have anything to do with reading comprehension.
Question 8 was actually thrown out (not graded). The State paid the test developers $32 million to develop the test. |
I don't get why owl is the right answer.
It is a shit test for the reasons you state. |
I think it was pretty obvious the owl was the right answer. There were three sentences in a row with a quote from a different animal, two of which were proven to be wrong because the pineapple wasn't playing a trick to win the race (and the hare actually ran 26 miles). It had nothing to do with the Moral IMO
I think #7 is a difficult one, because my assumption is that the animals had gone two hours without eating, and the hare just ran 26 miles so they should all be hungry. While they also should be very annoyed at the pineapple, I don't think there's enough background to justify that the animals would eat a pineapple because they are annoyed at it WITHOUT being hungry. But then again, being hungry wouldn't drive them to eat the pineapple if they weren't annoyed at it, so maybe that's the more important factor so that's why it's the answer? |
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juniper
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| rtomek wrote: |
I think it was pretty obvious the owl was the right answer. There were three sentences in a row with a quote from a different animal, two of which were proven to be wrong because the pineapple wasn't playing a trick to win the race (and the hare actually ran 26 miles). It had nothing to do with the Moral IMO
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The owl's "wisdom" was explained by the moose in the next sentence; the moose points out, correctly, that the saying shouldn't be taken literally. Thus, it seems the only way the owl is wise is if he is speaking figuratively. That is, pineapples don't have "tricks up their sleeve". But this isn't clear from the story. After all, the pineapple can talk, so why can't it have some tricks? It turns out that the owl was possibly correct figuratively, but the pineapple could have lost for various other reasons.
I don't think the answer is clear at all and the question certainly does't test reading comprehension. |
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chokehabit
n00b
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | There is nothing "wise" about the owl at all. In fact, it is rather ignorant. The comment wasn't literal as the owl was written to "understand" it. Test is wrong. |
I agree. That question is philosophical and has more than one right answer. |
The owl or the hare as far as I'm concerned. The only animals that state a fact without speculation or assumption. |
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energyman76b
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2022
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | notageek wrote: | | I don't think any of the answers are incorrect. It's one of those "you're all winners, thanks for participating" type of test. Designed to improve your self-confidence. |
It was a standardized test designed to measure the educational progress of students, teachers, and schools. This is part of "no child left behind" and "race to the top". |
it seems to affect you too. I am sure you meant 'race to the bottom' but you can't type anything as critical as that so your brainwashed subconsciousness misdirected your fingers.
Poor BK.
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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energyman76b
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | I'm stubborn.
Hungry is easily as correct as, what was it, annoyed? Frankly, 'annoyed' should warrant a psyche eval. You get annoyed, so the correct, rational response is to eat someone? Wow.
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if that someone is a woman. Why not? Btw, was that pineapple a female?
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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chokehabit
n00b
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | notageek wrote: | | I don't think any of the answers are incorrect. It's one of those "you're all winners, thanks for participating" type of test. Designed to improve your self-confidence. |
It was a standardized test designed to measure the educational progress of students, teachers, and schools. This is part of "no child left behind" and "race to the top". |
it seems to affect you too. I am sure you meant 'race to the bottom' but you can't type anything as critical as that so your brainwashed subconsciousness misdirected your fingers.
Poor BK. |
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | I don't get why owl is the right answer. |
Ask runningwithscissors; he can explain it to you in depth.
His logic boils down to this: you're only supposed to use the information in the passage, and everybody knows that the moral of any story is profoundly wise (which is information not in the passage, by the way), therefore the owl, who said the moral (which is arguably foolish, by the way) early in the story, is the wisest.
_________________
Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I know exactly how you feel. Watching the levels of stupidity and the proud lack of any kind of common knowledge in todays students makes me sick.
Politicians and corporations want stupid, consuming-without-question, pieces of meat as voters and customers.
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| chokehabit wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | notageek wrote: | | I don't think any of the answers are incorrect. It's one of those "you're all winners, thanks for participating" type of test. Designed to improve your self-confidence. |
It was a standardized test designed to measure the educational progress of students, teachers, and schools. This is part of "no child left behind" and "race to the top". |
it seems to affect you too. I am sure you meant 'race to the bottom' but you can't type anything as critical as that so your brainwashed subconsciousness misdirected your fingers.
Poor BK. |
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Long time no see, chokehabit. 
See what you went and did, energyman76b? You triggered a relapse of my multiple personality disorder. 
_________________
Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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energyman76b
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2022
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | chokehabit wrote: | | energyman76b wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | notageek wrote: | | I don't think any of the answers are incorrect. It's one of those "you're all winners, thanks for participating" type of test. Designed to improve your self-confidence. |
It was a standardized test designed to measure the educational progress of students, teachers, and schools. This is part of "no child left behind" and "race to the top". |
it seems to affect you too. I am sure you meant 'race to the bottom' but you can't type anything as critical as that so your brainwashed subconsciousness misdirected your fingers.
Poor BK. |
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Long time no see, chokehabit.
See what you went and did, energyman76b? You triggered a relapse of my multiple personality disorder. |
I am sorry. Just remember: you are not Obama and you should be fine.
_________________
| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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runningwithscissors
Guru
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: the third world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | His logic boils down to this: you're only supposed to use the information in the passage, and everybody knows that the moral of any story is profoundly wise (which is information not in the passage, by the way) |
That is the what the word 'moral' means. The passage doesn't redefine words. For comprehension, you need to know the meanings of words anyway. They don't need to be defined by the passage (they can be, but that's not the case in this passage).
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At some stage, the Hindus locked on to the nation destroying concepts like ahimsa (non-violence), shanti (peace), satya (truth) — the ‘ass’ syndrome. |
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1486
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | His logic boils down to this: you're only supposed to use the information in the passage, and everybody knows that the moral of any story is profoundly wise (which is information not in the passage, by the way) |
That is the what the word 'moral' means. The passage doesn't redefine words. For comprehension, you need to know the meanings of words anyway. They don't need to be defined by the passage (they can be, but that's not the case in this passage). |
Correct, but the author may be wrong, as authors often are. Good reading comprehension is not characterized by blind faith in whatever the author says. The author declares that to be the moral, but it is obviously, from a reading of the passage, nonsense and an unjustified declaration (because, as I said, the pineapple did indeed have something up his sleeve).
A sophisticated reading of this passage might conclude that the author's declaration of that moral was sarcastic humor, acknowledging that there is more than one way somebody can screw you. In such an interpretation, the "moral" would be mocking the conventional wisdom of the owl.
It wasn't a good choice of passage for this grade level or this type of question. It would have been an excellent passage upon which to base an essay question, at the level of college entrance examination.
_________________
Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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juniper
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 756
Location: EU
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: |
Correct, but the author may be wrong, as authors often are. Good reading comprehension is not characterized by blind faith in whatever the author says. The author declares that to be the moral, but it is obviously, from a reading of the passage, nonsense and an unjustified declaration (because, as I said, the pineapple did indeed have something up his sleeve). |
The passage is a bit nonsensical and then the reader is supposed to pinpoint the moral?
reading comprehension tests shouldn't involve anything about intuition, mathematics, etc etc. The only question that should be answer is can you understand the passage? If a grade 10 reading comprehension exam creates this much controversy with some obviously literate people, it is a bad exam.
| BK wrote: |
It wasn't a good choice of passage for this grade level or this type of question. It would have been an excellent passage upon which to base an essay question, at the level of college entrance examination. |
exactly. you can ask all sorts of interesting short essay questions on the passage. |
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: |
Correct, but the author may be wrong, as authors often are. Good reading comprehension is not characterized by blind faith in whatever the author says. The author declares that to be the moral, but it is obviously, from a reading of the passage, nonsense and an unjustified declaration (because, as I said, the pineapple did indeed have something up his sleeve). |
The passage is a bit nonsensical and then the reader is supposed to pinpoint the moral?
reading comprehension tests shouldn't involve anything about intuition, mathematics, etc etc. The only question that should be answer is can you understand the passage? If a grade 10 reading comprehension exam creates this much controversy with some obviously literate people, it is a bad exam.
| BK wrote: |
It wasn't a good choice of passage for this grade level or this type of question. It would have been an excellent passage upon which to base an essay question, at the level of college entrance examination. |
exactly. you can ask all sorts of interesting short essay questions on the passage. |
I agree, and it was a grade 8 reading exam.
_________________
Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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