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Muso
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 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sense |
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It's all about race now
| Quote: | If it had been a white teenager who was shot, and a 28-year-old black guy who shot him, the black guy would have been arrested.
So assert those demanding the arrest of George Zimmerman, who shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
And they may be right.
Yet if Trayvon had been shot dead by a black neighborhood watch volunteer, Jesse Jackson would not have been in a pulpit in Sanford, Fla., howling that he had been "murdered and martyred."
Maxine Waters would not be screaming "hate crime."
Rep. Hank Johnson would not be raging that Trayvon had been "executed." And ex-Black Panther Bobby Rush would not have been wearing a hoodie in the well of the House.
Which tells you what this whipped-up hysteria is all about.
It is not about finding the truth about what happened that night in Sanford when Zimmerman followed Trayvon in his SUV, and the two wound up in a fight, with Trayvon dead.
It is about the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict.
And it is about an irreconcilable conflict of visions about what the real America is in the year 2012.
Zimmerman "profiled" Trayvon, we are told. And perhaps he did.
But why? What did George Zimmerman, self-styled protector of his gated community, see that night from the wheel of his SUV?
He saw a male. And males are 90 percent of prison inmates. He saw a stranger over 6 feet tall. And he saw a black man or youth with a hood over his head.
Why would this raise Zimmerman's antennae?
Perhaps because black males between 16 and 36, though only 2 to 3 percent of the population, are responsible for a third of all our crimes.
In some cities, 40 percent of all black males are in jail or prison, on probation or parole, or have criminal records. This is not a product of white racism but of prosecutions and convictions of criminal acts.
Had Zimmerman seen a black woman or older man in his neighborhood, he likely would never have tensed up or called in.
For all the abuse he has received, Geraldo Rivera had a point.
Whenever cable TV runs hidden-camera footage of a liquor or convenience store being held up and someone behind the counter being shot, the perp is often a black male wearing a hoodie.
Listening to the heated rhetoric coming from demonstrations around the country, from the Black Caucus and TV talkers -- about how America is a terrifying place for young black males to grow up in because of the constant danger from white vigilantes -- one wonders what country of the mind these people are living in.
The real America is a country where the black crime rate is seven times as high as the white rate. It is a country where white criminals choose black victims in 3 percent of their crimes, but black criminals choose white victims in 45 percent of their crimes.
Black journalists point to the racism manifest even in progressive cities, where cabs deliberately pass them by to pick up white folks down the block.
That this happens is undeniable. But, again, what is behind it?
As Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute has written, from January to June 2008 in New York City, 83 percent of all identified gun assailants were black and 15 percent were Hispanics.
Together, blacks and Hispanics accounted for 98 percent of gun assaults.
Translated: If a cabdriver is going to be mugged or murdered in New York City by a fare, 49 times out of 50 his assailant or killer will be black or Hispanic.
Fernando Mateo of the New York State Federation of Taxi Drivers has told his drivers, "Profile your passengers" for your own protection. "The God's honest truth is that 99 percent of the people that are robbing, stealing, killing these guys are blacks and Hispanics."
Fernando Mateo is himself black and Hispanic.
To much of America's black leadership and its media auxiliaries, what happened in Sanford was, as Jesse put it, that an innocent kid was "shot down in cold blood by a vigilante."
Yet, from police reports, witness statements, and the father and friends of Zimmerman, another picture emerges.
Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confronted him, and was punched in the nose, knocked flat on his back and jumped on, getting his head pounded, when he pulled his gun and fired. That Trayvon's body was found face down, not face up, would tend to support this.
But, to Florida Congresswoman Federica Wilson, "this sweet young boy ... was hunted down like a dog, shot on the street, and his killer is still at large."
Some Sanford police believed Zimmerman; others did not.
But now that it is being investigated by a special prosecutor, the FBI, the Justice Department and a coming grand jury, what is the purpose of this venomous portrayal of George Zimmerman?
As yet convicted of no crime, he is being crucified in the arena of public opinion as a hate-crime monster and murderer.
Is this our idea of justice?
No. But if the purpose here is to turn this into a national black-white face-off, instead of a mutual search for truth and justice, it is succeeding marvelously well. |
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Old School
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I've been thinking that Pat has become less authoritarian, and more libertarian in the past decade. As for military excursions all over the world, he is nothing but consistent in his opposition. With the surety of being labeled a racist (again), he is spot on in his analysis of the overt politicization of this shooting.
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richk449
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get it what is so insightful. The structure of the argument is:
<Other people are trying to make this about race>
<Long rant about race>
<Those other jerks are trying to make this all about race>
If you don't want a discussion to be about race, don't bring up race.
Of course, anyone who has read more than 10 words by Pat Buchanan knows that he almost always wants to make it about race. He has made a whole career out of race.
| Old School wrote: | | I've been thinking that Pat has become less authoritarian, and more libertarian in the past decade. |
So has everyone. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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The statistics he cites are shocking. Of course, these statistics do not mean that young black men commit far more crime than anybody else; they mean that young black men are being profiled and persecuted.!
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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What a vile, f*cking scumbag.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | What a vile, f*cking scumbag. |
So says you, living in 95% white chav-land (Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire, isn't it?).
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richk449
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | The statistics he cites are shocking. |
Shocking, really? Oh, nevermind ...  |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| richk449 wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | The statistics he cites are shocking. |
Shocking, really? Oh, nevermind ... |
I used that word just for you. Want to see my "shocking" face? 
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: Re: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sens |
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Let's take this apart, bit by bit.
| Quote: | If it had been a white teenager who was shot, and a 28-year-old black guy who shot him, the black guy would have been arrested.
So assert those demanding the arrest of George Zimmerman, who shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
And they may be right.
Yet if Trayvon had been shot dead by a black neighborhood watch volunteer, Jesse Jackson would not have been in a pulpit in Sanford, Fla., howling that he had been "murdered and martyred."
Maxine Waters would not be screaming "hate crime."
Rep. Hank Johnson would not be raging that Trayvon had been "executed." And ex-Black Panther Bobby Rush would not have been wearing a hoodie in the well of the House. |
No shit. They wouldn't have been complaining about racism because... wait for it... there couldn't have been any fucking racism if it was black on black!
| Quote: | | Which tells you what this whipped-up hysteria is all about. |
Yeah. How utterly "hysterical" is to want justice for your dead teenage son.
| Quote: | | It is about the exacerbation of and the exploitation of racial conflict. |
In other words, it is completely unacceptable for blacks to complain. About anything. Good niggers should be seen and not heard.
| Quote: | | And it is about an irreconcilable conflict of visions about what the real America is in the year 2012. |
Wow. That's just unbelievable. Who knew there was a "real" (ie white) America.
| Quote: | Zimmerman "profiled" Trayvon, we are told. And perhaps he did.
But why? What did George Zimmerman, self-styled protector of his gated community, see that night from the wheel of his SUV?
He saw a male. And males are 90 percent of prison inmates. |
And the ones who aren't in prison: maybe it's because they're not criminals?
| Quote: | Perhaps because black males between 16 and 36, though only 2 to 3 percent of the population, are responsible for a third of all our crimes.
...
Whenever cable TV runs hidden-camera footage of a liquor or convenience store being held up and someone behind the counter being shot, the perp is often a black male wearing a hoodie. |
Black males are not criminals. They're just black.
| Quote: | | Listening to the heated rhetoric coming from demonstrations around the country, from the Black Caucus and TV talkers -- about how America is a terrifying place for young black males to grow up in because of the constant danger from white vigilantes -- one wonders what country of the mind these people are living in. |
It's called real life. You should try it sometime Pat.
| Quote: | | The real America is a country where the black crime rate is seven times as high as the white rate. It is a country where white criminals choose black victims in 3 percent of their crimes, but black criminals choose white victims in 45 percent of their crimes. |
No shit. Who's got all the money?
| Quote: | Black journalists point to the racism manifest even in progressive cities, where cabs deliberately pass them by to pick up white folks down the block.
That this happens is undeniable. But, again, what is behind it? |
Let me guess. Racism? That stupid old fuck doesn't seem to realise that perceiving black people as criminals is racist. He's actually arguing that it's a simple fact! Ubelievable.
| Quote: | To much of America's black leadership and its media auxiliaries, what happened in Sanford was, as Jesse put it, that an innocent kid was "shot down in cold blood by a vigilante."
Yet, from police reports, witness statements, and the father and friends of Zimmerman, another picture emerges.
Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confronted him, and was punched in the nose, knocked flat on his back and jumped on, getting his head pounded, when he pulled his gun and fired. That Trayvon's body was found face down, not face up, would tend to support this. |
At last Batshit Buchanan stops complaining about uppity, criminal niggers and actually gets to the issue, although we quickly wish he hadn't bothered. It is a monstrous lie to make the incident sound like Zimmerman was acting in self-defence while being attacked by some giant, angry negro. I hope he ends up on death row.
An unarmed kid on his way home from the local shop was challenged and then killed by a vigilante with a gun despite being told by the police to leave it. Afterwards Zimmerman wasn't even arrested. You don't think this sort of thing might partially explain Pat's statistics on race and crime?. This is what is really hitting all the buttons in the black community. If the police had dealt with the matter properly there would still have been the question of racism on Zimmerman's part, but nothing like the current outcry. People are - rightly - going crazy because a teenage boy was killed and nothing was done about it.
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Muso
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | Good niggers should be seen and not heard. |
| mcgruff wrote: | | At last Batshit Buchanan stops complaining about uppity, criminal niggers and actually gets to the issue, although we quickly wish he hadn't bothered. |
Stay classy McGruff.
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Old School
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Reverend Jesse Jackson wrote: | | There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. . . . After all we have been through. Just to think we can't walk down our own streets, how humiliating. |
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Muso
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sens |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | I hope he ends up on death row. |
Damn. What's with the insanity today?
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:56 am Post subject: |
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You tell me. You're the one who thinks it's OK to mow down black kids you don't like the look of.
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Muso
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | You tell me. You're the one who thinks it's OK to mow down black kids you don't like the look of. |
I do?
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bogamol
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sens |
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| The Earth wrote: | | mcgruff wrote: | | I hope he ends up on death row. |
Damn. What's with the insanity today? |
April 1.
Edit: err, not. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Pat has often made a lot of sense, since his presidential runs.
Also, what is a white-hispanic? It is only "white" Hispanic because that makes it racist. And they're right, it is racist. But not why they claim. THEY are the racists.
It would be a shame if we got the facts and completed the investigation, etc. But that doesn't matter.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sens |
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| mcgruff wrote: | | Let's take this apart, bit by bit. |
Interspersing insipid commentary into someone else's rant is not "taking it apart".
| mcgruff wrote: | | Good niggers should be seen and not heard. |
Dude. If you're going to talk like that, maybe you should go hang out on http://irateirishman.com or some place like it.
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Buchanan is terrible on culture war stuff, immigration, and international trade. On foreign policy he is very good. Most importantly he is sincere and, so far as I can tell, honest. He respects and listens to his opponents. He appears to be a fundamentally decent human begin.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
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... for a racist Scottish minger.
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pigeon768
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sens |
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Is the fact that George Zimmerman (the shooter) isn't white relevant to this discussion? | mcgruff wrote: | | Quote: | | And it is about an irreconcilable conflict of visions about what the real America is in the year 2012. |
Wow. That's just unbelievable. Who knew there was a "real" (ie white) America. |
You're putting words in his mouth. If you want to disagree with what he says, that's cool. But make sure he actually says the things you say you disagree with, otherwise you're not making any sense.
Hint: He is not saying that his vision of America is the "real" one.
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juniper
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | The statistics he cites are shocking. Of course, these statistics do not mean that young black men commit far more crime than anybody else; they mean that young black men are being profiled and persecuted.! |
perhaps he isn't your favourite republican candidate, but Ron Paul would agree that they are being profiled and persecuted. The war on drugs is responsible for those awful statistics. |
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mcgruff
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hell has frozen over... Pat Buchanan actually makes sens |
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| pigeon768 wrote: | Is the fact that George Zimmerman (the shooter) isn't white relevant to this discussion? | mcgruff wrote: | | Quote: | | And it is about an irreconcilable conflict of visions about what the real America is in the year 2012. |
Wow. That's just unbelievable. Who knew there was a "real" (ie white) America. |
You're putting words in his mouth. If you want to disagree with what he says, that's cool. But make sure he actually says the things you say you disagree with, otherwise you're not making any sense.
Hint: He is not saying that his vision of America is the "real" one. |
That is exactly what Batshit Buchanan is saying. He attempts to portray black Americans as some kind of criminal underclass and he will not recognise entirely justified complaints about a horrific racial incident. Instead, he characterises these as another opportunistic salvo in some kind of race war for control of the US. The "real" US, in his eyes, is one where whites are firmly in control and blacks should not have the temerity to challenge the status quo. Niggers should be seen and not heard. And occasionally murdered without comment.
Hateful little shit.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| juniper wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | The statistics he cites are shocking. Of course, these statistics do not mean that young black men commit far more crime than anybody else; they mean that young black men are being profiled and persecuted.! |
perhaps he isn't your favourite republican candidate, but Ron Paul would agree that they are being profiled and persecuted. The war on drugs is responsible for those awful statistics. |
I agree the war on drugs is responsible for many incarcerations. So are drugs. I'm not yet sold either way on that issue. At the moment, I think marijuana should be legalized, but I'm convinced that legalizing most of the others would not cause more harm than good. Yes, I'm aware that the current situation has its down side, but I think having a hundred fifty million cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine addicts would have its down side as well. I have noticed that the Netherlands, of all people, seem to be incrementally tightening their control over drugs as well. I wonder what that says.
War on drugs aside, the racial / cultural profiling that goes on is a bad thing, but it does not even begin to account for the disparity in crime demographics. Surprisingly, as far as I can tell, income and education only seem to account for a fraction of it. The most closely correlated factors seem to be residential location (i.e., inner city or trailer parks) and ethnicity (i.e. Afro-), with employment status and educational level (i.e., unemployed; did not complete high school) following closely thereafter. There does seem to be a very persistent and specific sub-cultural problem (we don't see this among Asians at all, and Hispanics seem to leave it behind when they move out of the urban enclaves. Then again, the studies I've seen draw varying conclusions. I think many of them set out with one policy agenda or another.
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juniper
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: |
War on drugs aside, the racial / cultural profiling that goes on is a bad thing, but it does not even begin to account for the disparity in crime demographics. Surprisingly, as far as I can tell, income and education only seem to account for a fraction of it. The most closely correlated factors seem to be residential location (i.e., inner city or trailer parks) and ethnicity (i.e. Afro-), with employment status and educational level (i.e., unemployed; did not complete high school) following closely thereafter. There does seem to be a very persistent and specific sub-cultural problem (we don't see this among Asians at all, and Hispanics seem to leave it behind when they move out of the urban enclaves. Then again, the studies I've seen draw varying conclusions. I think many of them set out with one policy agenda or another. |
it is the profiling during sentencing, not pre arrest, that seems to be the problem. various stats on white vs blacks on whether or not they get sent to prison AFTER being caught.
My impression is that it is mainly culturally, economic and education based. |
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Boris27
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | juniper wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | The statistics he cites are shocking. Of course, these statistics do not mean that young black men commit far more crime than anybody else; they mean that young black men are being profiled and persecuted.! |
perhaps he isn't your favourite republican candidate, but Ron Paul would agree that they are being profiled and persecuted. The war on drugs is responsible for those awful statistics. |
I agree the war on drugs is responsible for many incarcerations. So are drugs. I'm not yet sold either way on that issue. At the moment, I think marijuana should be legalized, but I'm convinced that legalizing most of the others would not cause more harm than good. Yes, I'm aware that the current situation has its down side, but I think having a hundred fifty million cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine addicts would have its down side as well. I have noticed that the Netherlands, of all people, seem to be incrementally tightening their control over drugs as well. I wonder what that says.
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Only for foreigners. The problem with legalizing soft drugs is the border. There is international pressure (from our neighbouring countries) to stop the sale to foreigners, and internal pressure to keep the foreigners from coming here, smoke way too much and fuck everything up.
So we invented the weed pass. You have to be a Dutch resident to buy weed, and can only buy smallish quantities (so buying bulk and selling it on is harder).
All tightening of control is aimed at foreigners.
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