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sts
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 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: [dmitchell] Sealand, HavenCo, and the Rule of Law |
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http://illinoislawreview.org/article/sealand-havenco-and-the-rule-of-law/
| Quote: | In 2000, a group of American entrepreneurs moved to a former World War II antiaircraft platform in the North Sea, seven miles off the British coast. There, they launched HavenCo, one of the strangest start-ups in Internet history. A former pirate radio broadcaster, Roy Bates, had occupied the platform in the 1960s, moved his family aboard, and declared it to be the sovereign Principality of Sealand. HavenCo’s founders were opposed to governmental censorship and control of the Internet; by putting computer servers on Sealand, they planned to create a “data haven” for unpopular speech, safely beyond the reach of any other country. This Article tells the full story of Sealand and HavenCo—and examines what they have to tell us about the nature of the rule of law in the age of the Internet.
The story itself is fascinating enough: it includes pirate radio, shotguns, rampant copyright infringement, a Red Bull skateboarding special, perpetual motion machines, and the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of State. But its implications for the rule of law are even more remarkable. Previous scholars have seen HavenCo as a straightforward challenge to the rule of law: by threatening to undermine national authority, HavenCo was opposed to all law. As the fuller history shows, this story is too simplistic. HavenCo also depended on international law to recognize and protect Sealand, and on Sealand law to protect it from Sealand itself. Where others have seen HavenCo’s failure as the triumph of traditional regulatory authorities over HavenCo, this Article argues that in a very real sense, HavenCo failed not from too much law but from too little. The “law” that was supposed to keep HavenCo safe was law only in a thin, formalistic sense, disconnected from the human institutions that make and enforce law. But without those institutions, law does not work, as HavenCo discovered. |
Or
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/03/sealand-and-havenco.ars |
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | this Article argues that in a very real sense, HavenCo failed not from too much law but from too little. The “law” that was supposed to keep HavenCo safe was law only in a thin, formalistic sense, disconnected from the human institutions that make and enforce law. But without those institutions, law does not work, as HavenCo discovered. |
So it's the story of the ideal of Libertarianism destroying itself the same way as the ideal of Communism. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | the story of the ideal of Libertarianism |
You might look into where Sealand is. Hint, it isn't land. Hardly an idea for much of anything.
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sugar
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Neat story. Maybe if it wasn't run by a lunatic something would have come of it.
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Your argument is invalid. |
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Prenj
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| sugar wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | So it's the story of the ideal of Libertarianism destroying itself the same way as the ideal of Communism. |
an Earnian model would have easily have solved all of these issues. |
Utopist since people in power would have to give up power. Aint gonna happen. Ever. |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | Neat story. Maybe if it wasn't run by a lunatic something would have come of it. |
No true Libertarian.
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | No true Libertarian. |
He could have been libertarian Jesus or Hitler reincarnate. He was a nut whose only skills, so far as I could tell from the article, were manipulation of the press and the occasional helicopter raid.
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | the story of the ideal of Libertarianism |
You might look into where Sealand is. Hint, it isn't land. Hardly an idea for much of anything. |
I know where it is. I've seen it myself from the coast. It's location or size doesn't have anything to do with my point. The point is that it was supposedly outside the rule of law. |
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Prenj
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Nature > Ideology |
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pjp
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | the story of the ideal of Libertarianism |
You might look into where Sealand is. Hint, it isn't land. Hardly an idea for much of anything. |
I know where it is. I've seen it myself from the coast. It's location or size doesn't have anything to do with my point. The point is that it was supposedly outside the rule of law. |
It is related, but it doesn't have anything to do with an ideal of libertarianism.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
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sugar
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Prenj wrote: | | sugar wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | So it's the story of the ideal of Libertarianism destroying itself the same way as the ideal of Communism. |
an Earnian model would have easily have solved all of these issues. |
Utopist since people in power would have to give up power. Aint gonna happen. Ever. |
Hard Earnianism doesn't demand this.
Only that, when one dies, they give up all power.
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big dave
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| how is this indicative of anything? this was a bunch of guys moving platform in the ocean... not starting a real country. there's no land, industry, GDP, or even real population. |
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | the story of the ideal of Libertarianism |
You might look into where Sealand is. Hint, it isn't land. Hardly an idea for much of anything. |
I know where it is. I've seen it myself from the coast. It's location or size doesn't have anything to do with my point. The point is that it was supposedly outside the rule of law. |
It is related, but it doesn't have anything to do with an ideal of libertarianism. |
Sure it has. It's a Ron Paul-loving libertard's wet dream. |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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To live on a barge filled with toxic waste? That was this dude's plan. To fill a barge with such deadly poisonous toxic waste that no one would dare approach... and then live on it. The guy was certifiably insane.
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Prenj
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I bet he must feel like an ass couple of years later when nobody gives a damn. Sitting all alone on that pile of shit, no pub in sight and thinking "hey I thought I was onto something ... now what?" |
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pitcrawler
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | To live on a barge filled with toxic waste? That was this dude's plan. To fill a barge with such deadly poisonous toxic waste that no one would dare approach... and then live on it. The guy was certifiably insane. |
So he may need to adjust his method a little... |
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | It's a Ron Paul-loving libertard's wet dream. |
Not at all. How exactly is any kind of government supposed to function on a few square feet of abandoned platform?
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
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