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pitcrawler
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Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Who says he won't be? Pawns are often sacrificed for political reasons. Why are you so quick to convict him? Innocent until proven guilty, and it is likely due to the psychological impact of long term exposure to war. So absolutely that should be taken into account. |
I didn't convict him, hence the reason why I wrote if, but the fact is, the US officially admitted that one of their soldiers did this, and I don't think they'd say that if they expected him to be innocent. The other point is that most people with a conscience would think that, even if this soldier was their best buddy or a close relative, it's a despicable thing to do and must be condemned first and foremost. As opposed to: "Hey, I don't have an opinion of what he's done but I really hope this guy doesn't get used as some kind of political pawn for some reason only known to myself."
Politics shouldn't be on peoples' minds right now at all. It's harsh, but what should be on peoples' minds are the other soldiers and civilians who are likely to die in reprisals that might have otherwise survived. |
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wswartzendruber
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Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Which is why I now say: "Fuck Afghanistan!"
Let's bring our guys home, and leave them be. Then they'll kill themselves instead of us. |
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pjp
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | The other point is that most people with a conscience would think that, even if this soldier was their best buddy or a close relative, it's a despicable thing to do and must be condemned first and foremost. |
Must be condemned first and foremost is a political circle jerk. It does nothing. Obviously someone did it, that isn't the point. If being in a war zone has caused him to be mentally unstable, that's the issue. If he was just sick of being there and had enough, different issue entirely. Throwing him to whatever Afghanistan calls a legal system is not the right thing to do. He killed 16 people "last week" and it was perfectly acceptable.
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In Loving Memory
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1480
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | Do you really expect them to care? Look at them! They rioted over books being burned, most (if not all) of which had already been written in.
I say, fuck those assholes, let's pack-up and go home. The Army and Marine Corps have both been working around-the-year deployment shifts for the last decade. AFAIK, that's more than any other volunteer armed force has ever done.
EDIT: And treating the Marine Corps like an occupational force should be a sign in itself that things are off. |
The individual burden has been excessive on troops because we've got too small a force for such long-term undertakings. It was the Generals, though, telling Obama he needed to send in a shitload more troops. Biden had it right: pull out and use hit-and-run special operations tactics to maintain pressure on al Qaeda and the Taliban. Either of those would have been acceptable courses of action, militarily. The latter would have been preferable financially (at least in the short term; who knows what it will cost to take Kabul the next time, when it's the center of the Islamic Empire or something).
What was not a tenable course of action militarily was to "split the difference" to try and make everybody happy, stroking a dick with each hand while saying conflicting sweet nothings out of both sides of your mouth. Sending in half the troops they asked for was, as I said at the time, going to do nothing but prolong everybody's suffering, Vietnam style.
The only thing anybody could do worse than that would be to send in half the number of troops requested, brag on the one hand that you're going to do "whatever it takes" while announcing loudly on the other a withdrawal date, piss away a lot of money on the corrupt regime, piss away even more money on the corrupt regime next door, kill a bunch of innocent people, get a bunch of our own boys killed or maimed... and then give up, while blaming it on everybody but their self.
The right thing to do now is probably to hand the nation-building mess over to the Afghanis, while continuing to strike at al Qaeda, and to the extent they continue military operations against the Afghanis, strike at the Taliban. Unfortunately, since the first thing Obama did when he got in office was let the Russians gain control of our only military airbase in the region, that will be difficult to do. We'd have to set up a base somewhere in Western Afghanistan, with a vast no-man's land around it, or something. I don't think we can apply much pressure from aircraft carriers alone.
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cach0rr0
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
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Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: |
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This kid is going to be crucified, and rightfully so
They *may* take the death penalty off the table if it's proven he did indeed have a complete mental breakdown. But I don't imagine he's going to see the light of day for a good long while. |
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runningwithscissors
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Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: the third world
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | What I do care about is that the soldier isn't sacrificed for political reasons. |
Who says he will be? Why are you so quick to defend him? If he did what they say he did then there's not really any defense. |
Because he is the same nationality as the murderer. It's kinda like how racists see people not of their race as sub-human.
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of sub-human, how do you know we're the same nationality? Exactly. You don't. (I have no idea what nationality he is.)
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In Loving Memory
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dmitchell
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Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1154
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | The right thing to do now is probably to hand the nation-building mess over to the Afghanis, while continuing to strike at al Qaeda |
The government says there are fewer than 100 people affiliated with al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I've always said this, you're losing wars because you're too politically correct. Let the truth rise, and do what you actually want to do. This guy is at-least honest.
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wswartzendruber
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Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| Staff Sergeant Asshole murdered sixteen people. That doesn't do anything to help you win a war, troll. |
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notageek
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008
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Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, you're right. Killing only 16 people wouldn't help but it's a start.
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wswartzendruber
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Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | The right thing to do now is probably to hand the nation-building mess over to the Afghanis, while continuing to strike at al Qaeda |
The government says there are fewer than 100 people affiliated with al Qaeda in Afghanistan. |
Yeah, and I have a 14" dick. |
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dmitchell
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Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:09 am Post subject: |
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In the military you can kill all the kids and civilians you want so long as you do it at distance with a sky robot. Everybody knows that.
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dmitchell
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Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| wswartzendruber wrote: | | Yeah, and I have a 14" dick. |
Fifty to one hundred, maybe less. So do you black out every time you get a chubby?
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | The right thing to do now is probably to hand the nation-building mess over to the Afghanis, while continuing to strike at al Qaeda |
The government says there are fewer than 100 people affiliated with al Qaeda in Afghanistan. |
Then that won't take much striking, will it. More like a little game of whack-a-mole, to keep them from coming back. I notice you truncated my sentence, though. 
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Last edited by BoneKracker on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cach0rr0
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Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:33 am Post subject: |
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to be fair, he's not saying what you (apparently?) think he's saying
50-100 in Afghanistan, but most are in tribal areas of Pakistan
There have been craptons living in Pakistan's FATA, but fighting in Afghanistan, from day one.
Yet more in Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc, though it's far more convenient to be in Pakistan.
Come across the border for a few weeks or months, fight, return home to Pakistan. |
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BoneKracker
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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What we should do is load up a plane with a half-dozen child rapists out of prisons, drug them up good so they're like babbling lunatics, and turn them over to the Afghan mob, saying "Here you go; it was these guys."
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
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dmitchell
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Joined: 17 May 2003
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Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Then that won't take much striking, will it. More like a little game of whack-a-mole, to keep them from coming back. I notice you truncated my sentence, though. :? |
Only because I didn't have anything to add with respect to the rest of your sentence. I'm not disagreeing with you about anything, I just thought the CIA assessment was appropos.
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: |
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I see all of you ignored my comment. I wasn't trolling, I was serious.
If you can't look into the eyes of your enemy and say it like it is, (Fuck you, I'm going to kill you all) you're not just dishonest but coward. The only reason you care about this incident is because it is a blot on your status of "Leader of free world" status.
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BoneKracker
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | I see all of you ignored my comment. I wasn't trolling, I was serious.
If you can't look into the eyes of your enemy and say it like it is, (Fuck you, I'm going to kill you all) you're not just dishonest but coward. The only reason you care about this incident is because it is a blot on your status of "Leader of free world" status. |
This situation isn't desperate, and it's not "total war". There is no reason here to be massacring civilians by the thousands just to get the 10% who are actually enemy.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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cach0rr0
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Joined: 13 Nov 2008
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Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | I see all of you ignored my comment. I wasn't trolling, I was serious.
If you can't look into the eyes of your enemy and say it like it is, (Fuck you, I'm going to kill you all) you're not just dishonest but coward. The only reason you care about this incident is because it is a blot on your status of "Leader of free world" status. |
huh? well if that's what you were getting at, it's absolutely worth consciously ignoring rather than overlooking
Afghan civilians are not the enemy, nor are they our targets. If they were, we could have flattened Kabul and Kandahar within hours, and been done with it, 10 years ago.
People's reasons for caring about this incident are going to vary. Some might care about how this affects our perception in various countries. I personally couldn't give a rat's ass how we're perceived, what I care about is that this is going to make the lives of our fighting men over there that much more difficult, and this is going to inspire yet more uneducated dim-witted goatfuckers to go and blow themselves and our people up in the name of Allah. We have enough enemies on our own, we don't need to be giving these people propaganda for recruitment.
Strangely there's been less ire over this by the locals than there was over the quran burning incident. Could have something to do with the snow they just had turning everything to shit, for us and locals alike. |
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cach0rr0
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Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. The UN intel report going around is in direct contradiction of the "official" US/NATO stance.
US/NATO are claiming it was conventional support personnel assigned to a SOF company that went "off the reservation" so to speak, and blasted a bunch of civilians just before dawn.
...where the UN intelligence report is saying there were multiples involved, and that it was a botched raid.
If the latter were true I'd have to alter my initial stance of "he should be crucified". It's unclassified so it should be coming out in short order, provided our media spin machine doesn't keep it suppressed. |
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pitcrawler
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Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| cach0rr0 wrote: | Interesting. The UN intel report going around is in direct contradiction of the "official" US/NATO stance.
US/NATO are claiming it was conventional support personnel assigned to a SOF company that went "off the reservation" so to speak, and blasted a bunch of civilians just before dawn.
...where the UN intelligence report is saying there were multiples involved, and that it was a botched raid.
If the latter were true I'd have to alter my initial stance of "he should be crucified". It's unclassified so it should be coming out in short order, provided our media spin machine doesn't keep it suppressed. |
How does the saying go? There's your side, then there's their side, then there's the truth. |
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elyes
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 110
Location: Calvados Normandie France
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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so you compare US soldier to taliban !?
The Earth, you are a joke !
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Old School
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 231
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Bring the Boys (and Girls) back Home.
Let the Muzzies kill each other to their little heart's content.
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