View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
dE_logics Advocate
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 2253 Location: $TERM
|
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: Gentoo is going DOWN on servers too. |
|
|
Apart from popularity in distrowatch -
http://w3techs.com/technologies/history_details/os-linux/all/q
But this maybe because of rising number of servers worldwide, so all in all the usage might be increasing, but % is reducing.
The 2 commercial Linux giants -- Novel, Redhat are also having bad times. _________________ My blog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
golagoda Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 105 Location: Australia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This just further drives home the point that people are just looking for instant ease of use, I've found myself that Gentoo has actually been the easiest distribution for servers once you're used to portage and all that, but Ubuntu and the likes are only going to get more and more popular at this rate.
More and more tutorials and such on forums, blogs etc are made for Ubuntu / Debian deriatives / Distro's with apt-get so naturally more people are going to use or switch to them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jdhore Retired Dev
Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 106
|
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
golagoda wrote: | This just further drives home the point that people are just looking for instant ease of use, I've found myself that Gentoo has actually been the easiest distribution for servers once you're used to portage and all that, but Ubuntu and the likes are only going to get more and more popular at this rate.
More and more tutorials and such on forums, blogs etc are made for Ubuntu / Debian deriatives / Distro's with apt-get so naturally more people are going to use or switch to them. |
This. Also, people choose Ubuntu because they're more likely to be familiar with it from trying it on their home computer. Also, with Gentoo declining on servers...Gentoo isn't brilliant for companies with MASSIVE amounts of servers (like hundreds) due to the fact that every Gentoo install may be different and you have to do a bit of hackery to make them all the same (like putting /etc/portage/ on a NFS share and mask everything newer than the current version for all installed packages and then change it when necessary.) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
FizzyWidget Veteran
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 1133 Location: 127.0.0.1
|
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[sarcasm]yes its so hard to edit a few text files and run a few commands, but if you have it in a nice gui it makes all the difference[/sarcasm] _________________ I know 43 ways to kill with a SKITTLE, so taste my rainbow bitch. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Etal Veteran
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 1931
|
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jdhore wrote: | golagoda wrote: | This just further drives home the point that people are just looking for instant ease of use, I've found myself that Gentoo has actually been the easiest distribution for servers once you're used to portage and all that, but Ubuntu and the likes are only going to get more and more popular at this rate.
More and more tutorials and such on forums, blogs etc are made for Ubuntu / Debian deriatives / Distro's with apt-get so naturally more people are going to use or switch to them. |
This. Also, people choose Ubuntu because they're more likely to be familiar with it from trying it on their home computer. Also, with Gentoo declining on servers...Gentoo isn't brilliant for companies with MASSIVE amounts of servers (like hundreds) due to the fact that every Gentoo install may be different and you have to do a bit of hackery to make them all the same (like putting /etc/portage/ on a NFS share and mask everything newer than the current version for all installed packages and then change it when necessary.) |
If you had a few hundred servers, you'd use be using BINHOST rather updating them individually, making /etc/portage pretty much irrelevant _________________ “And even in authoritarian countries, information networks are helping people discover new facts and making governments more accountable.”– Hillary Clinton, Jan. 21, 2010 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dE_logics Advocate
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 2253 Location: $TERM
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
golagoda wrote: | This just further drives home the point that people are just looking for instant ease of use, I've found myself that Gentoo has actually been the easiest distribution for servers once you're used to portage and all that, but Ubuntu and the likes are only going to get more and more popular at this rate.
More and more tutorials and such on forums, blogs etc are made for Ubuntu / Debian deriatives / Distro's with apt-get so naturally more people are going to use or switch to them. |
I sort of disagree. Most server (except Microsoft ones maybe) are managed by professions; if that's not so, it will be the case in the future IMO.
Professionals don't see ease of use -- they see the maintenance, performance and security; in server environments, maintaining Gentoo is really not hard and we all know Gentoo is best at performance and security (hardened).
Actually, if ease of use was the case, only MS would have survived.
Also I think instead of opting for 100 servers, I'd opt for a single mainframe. _________________ My blog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dE_logics Advocate
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 2253 Location: $TERM
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Etal wrote: | jdhore wrote: | golagoda wrote: | This just further drives home the point that people are just looking for instant ease of use, I've found myself that Gentoo has actually been the easiest distribution for servers once you're used to portage and all that, but Ubuntu and the likes are only going to get more and more popular at this rate.
More and more tutorials and such on forums, blogs etc are made for Ubuntu / Debian deriatives / Distro's with apt-get so naturally more people are going to use or switch to them. |
This. Also, people choose Ubuntu because they're more likely to be familiar with it from trying it on their home computer. Also, with Gentoo declining on servers...Gentoo isn't brilliant for companies with MASSIVE amounts of servers (like hundreds) due to the fact that every Gentoo install may be different and you have to do a bit of hackery to make them all the same (like putting /etc/portage/ on a NFS share and mask everything newer than the current version for all installed packages and then change it when necessary.) |
If you had a few hundred servers, you'd use be using BINHOST rather updating them individually, making /etc/portage pretty much irrelevant |
No one wants to waste bandwidth in updates; this's a unique feature of Gentoo which makes updates a lot easier. _________________ My blog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Prenj n00b
Joined: 20 Nov 2011 Posts: 16
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gentoo is horrible for servers, I cannot tell my customers to take down 24 servers for couple of hours so that gentoo can compile updates, when other distros can do it within 20 minutes time-frame or less. Why bother? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dE_logics Advocate
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 2253 Location: $TERM
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Prenj wrote: | Gentoo is horrible for servers, I cannot tell my customers to take down 24 servers for couple of hours so that gentoo can compile updates, when other distros can do it within 20 minutes time-frame or less. Why bother? |
24 hours? I don't think so dude. What kind of server are you talking about?
Also it's a good idea to make backup of the rootfs and compile the updates in a chroot env (or a different system), and building binary packages on the way; that way you can even test the updated installation.
Also, servers don't require much updates, I just keep a check on the security vulnerabilities, and update the corresponding packages selectively. _________________ My blog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sera Retired Dev
Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 1017 Location: CET
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Prenj wrote: | Gentoo is horrible for servers, I cannot tell my customers to take down 24 servers for couple of hours so that gentoo can compile updates, when other distros can do it within 20 minutes time-frame or less. Why bother? |
You can't take down 24 severs for 20 minutes either. So no difference here.
What speaks against Gentoo is that it's more difficult to find qualified employees and there is no official support from the distro itself. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
krinn Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would never really understand why people use ubuntu as server instead of debian.
It appears strange. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dirkfanick Apprentice
Joined: 12 Jan 2011 Posts: 201 Location: germany - hamburg
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | Gentoo is horrible for servers, I cannot tell my customers to take down 24 servers for couple of hours so that gentoo can compile updates, when other distros can do it within 20 minutes time-frame or less. Why bother? |
ever made a dist-upgrade in debian/ubuntu?
Last edited by dirkfanick on Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dE_logics Advocate
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 2253 Location: $TERM
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
depontius Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004 Posts: 3509
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Prenj wrote: | Gentoo is horrible for servers, I cannot tell my customers to take down 24 servers for couple of hours so that gentoo can compile updates, when other distros can do it within 20 minutes time-frame or less. Why bother? |
See dE-logics' remark on BINHOST. _________________ .sigs waste space and bandwidth |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dirkfanick Apprentice
Joined: 12 Jan 2011 Posts: 201 Location: germany - hamburg
|
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I repeat myself, but the beautifull abuot gentoo is that you can mix stable with bleeding-edge software easely.
debian is linked statically and I remember bad dependency-problems about installing newest software.
However, I've heard debian is a bit more stable and prooven as that. Backports may be offered. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ToeiRei Veteran
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 1191 Location: Austria
|
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Philosophy of a company to choose an operating system: "Who can we sue/blame if things break?"
As long as there's someone supporting the distro and takes the blame for breakage, they take anything.
Here I'm using gentoo and CentOS depending on if we need special binary packages that are only certified to run on some RPM distros. Why? Well... Just try to get eToken devices running with the official middleware from trustware on 64bit... _________________ Please stand by - The mailer daemon is busy burning your messages in hell... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dirkfanick Apprentice
Joined: 12 Jan 2011 Posts: 201 Location: germany - hamburg
|
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ToeiRei wrote: | "Who can we sue/blame if things break?" |
Jesus?
Taliban?
Buddha?
The rabbi?
Your mother? Your Father?
Yourself?
Dirk Fanick!
Last edited by dirkfanick on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ToeiRei Veteran
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 1191 Location: Austria
|
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
another sidenote: you can always 'emerge -B $package' to prepare a package (building) and 'emerge -K $package' later.
But I still don't get where the actual downtime is. _________________ Please stand by - The mailer daemon is busy burning your messages in hell... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dE_logics Advocate
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 2253 Location: $TERM
|
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why not just make a cluster if uptimes are that important?
~6 hours ago, even Gentoo server were down (maintenance?) _________________ My blog |
|
Back to top |
|
|
carpenterguy Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Posts: 132
|
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would be considered a hobby user, my profession as a carpenter does not require computer skills.
My first distro was sabayon and I quickly started using gentoo.
I see no reason for gentoo to be anywhere on distrowatch, any linux cd will work.
I have installed debian a few times, simply makes no sense to me .... gentoo is so much easier to accomplish what you want.
Every time I learn how to do something on debian, leaves me scratching my head .... seems so backwards. Compile a kernel for example.
Gentoo just seems to make sense to me.
I have little experience with servers, but would be gentoo all the way for me. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|