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Matias Jose Seco
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:51 am    Post subject: Minimalistic Approach Discussion Reply with quote

Notes: Implementation Complexity or Instability or Time are not considered limits :)

Principles:
    Modularized
    Shared
    Compressed
    Essential

NOTES: Minimalistic intended as ‘minimum ,for user, needed’, and not, minimum for hardware needed, and moreover, ‘actually needed’ and not ‘overall needed’

Implementation Ideas
    Filesystem:
      o Reiser4 / swap=file
      o Compression: gzip
      o Tailing
      o 4k Cluster
      o Mount: noatime,nodiratime or relatime (if needed)

    Kernel
      o Real-Core needed built-in
      o Anything else modularized
      o Builded along with custom Flags (see below) (upon a Gentoo-sources kernel)

    Gentoo Environment
      o CFLAGS: -march=native –Os
      o LDFLAGS: -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed
      o PRELINK program usage
      o PROFILE: Base
      o USE: (needed), minimal*

Footnotes of Analysis:
*Look manually what installation it avoids and enable them through temporary USE flags,
1. : If a dependency missing of features for the emerged program are needed, it will be re-emerged with needed additions?

- Kernel’s modules will be activated through Bash’s scripts, avoiding also init scripts, to get a real minimal booted system to begin control from
- 2. March=native always successfull at identifying all cpu features?
- 3. Emerge –-update -–newuse updates also gcc and glibc?
- 4. Could you point any resource for further information of the different settings for each profile? (Desktop, Server, Base)
- 5. USE flags:
    o 1) custom-cflags exists for those apps. That on default compiles with pre-defined flags? How many apps don’t consider user flags?
    o 2) Does dbus makes programs less resource hungry? Dga? Dri? Is framebuffer a good choice? Many differences between that from X and Kernel’s built-in? Ggi?
    o 3) How does memlimit works?
    o 4) Sharedmem lowers RAM usage?
    o 5) What are static-libs pros/cons?
    o 6) Sysvipc pros/cons?

Any other ideas? Any reflection about a point? What’s your point of view?
Greetings, Matias
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what?
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a joke, I think. :roll:

Matias, the problem is that you asked so many questions that properly responding would take pages and pages of typing and, depending on what you learned from some of the answers, you might want to ask different questions. You'll have better luck if you don't ask us to write a book in response to one of your posts.

- John
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Matias Jose Seco
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh!^^, you're right.


My intention was to introduce a discussion which everyone is free to talk
about what he thinks or whatever he likes about the argument minimalism.

As clearly doesn't seem to be :D , my questions wanted to be cues to advice
aspects of minimalism approaches :)

I invite you to tell whatever you want in any way you would like to share
another glare of this interesting discussion :)

Greetings, Matias
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Minimalistic Approach Discussion Reply with quote

Some random notes.

Reiser4, dead.

ld uses --as-needed by default in Gentoo, as far as I know. At least, in x86(_64).

PRELINK, break things. Wine seems to like it lately, though.

Dependencies are always pushed. Portage is good enough at calculating USE flags, but sometimes a brain is needed, no way around that.

About -march, better as gcc developers.

--update --newuse don't really care about the name of the package, they do their job regardless.

For complete info on the profile, considering that they can change each time you do emerge --sync, the best place is to look at $PORTDIR/profiles/*.

Some ebuild filter CFLAGS, this is done for a good reason (i.e. to make the program actually compile and/or work). Some programs can malfunction if you override that, and your bugreports might be marked as invalid if you choose to do so.

You really should use google a bit for dbus, dga, dri and the like.

Dbus doesn't eliminate famine, not in the world and not in the realm of binary beings (so called "programs"). It definitely doesn't make the programs any less resource hungry. It's just a communication mechanism so programs can talk to each other. Some kind of IPC if you want (yes, you can also google for "IPC").

Framebuffer is a standard way to represent graphics when in lack of a proper (optimized) video driver. There are some programs that can work directly on the framebuffer, without acceleration, and without X. If you want a desktop and you are not into mobile devices, and you don't know if you can live with only the framebuffer, then the chance is that you can't at all.

I don't know what memlimit is. And yes, sharing memory reduces redundancy and helps using it the smart way.

Static linking means you don't need shared libs outside your binary, that can be handy when you are limited in which you can access (rescue systems, at early boot, etc), and a handful of other occasions. But, usually, dynamic linking is preferred nowadays since it also avoids redundancy of object code in both memory and storage.
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Matias Jose Seco
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Minimalistic Approach Discussion Reply with quote

Quote:
Reiser4, dead.

I see that current developer (Edward) supports for any question or bug fixing :)

I think is interesting: isn't Reiser4 the only one that actually implements many features at same time such as compression, suballocation, COW, allocate on flush upon B*-trees + dancing trees? It's also modularized through plugins :)

Quote:
PRELINK, break things. Wine seems to like it lately, though.

I've found that it has problems with some non-pic programs and some static libraries, fortunately broken things can be unprelinked and masked
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Abnonnoca
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohhhhh, really?
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Matias Jose Seco
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abnonnoca wrote:
ohhhhh, really?

REISER4:

PRELINK
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