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desultory
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Shhh. If word gets out, it will be forum anarchy.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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1clue
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Sadako wrote:
I'd actually quite like a general linux forum too, there've been a few posts I wanted to make but not bother with because they're not really specific to gentoo (despite gentoo being all I really use), and I didn't want them dumped in OTW...
Hopeless, you know as well as anyone that questions "dumped in OTW" will probably be answered faster than any other Gentoo sub forum.


However those "answers" will almost certainly have nothing to do with the original topic.

I recently had a serious thread dumped in OTW from Unsupported Software, and the quality of the discussion plummeted the very instant that happened.

I strongly suspect that nobody over the age of 14 regularly posts on that forum. I wish there were some other forum which has better moderation where serious but non-Gentoo topics could land.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
I recently had a serious thread dumped in OTW from Unsupported Software, and the quality of the discussion plummeted the very instant that happened.

That in my opinion, is a gross exaggeration.
Here is the thread in question. Let the reader decide if you received useful suggestions, and the level of discussion.
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charly
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can there PLEASE be a Politics sub-forum? I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

charly wrote:
Can there PLEASE be a Politics sub-forum? I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing


oblahblahblahblah


I agree, its getting tiring. The advocates of such posts say the same thing happened when bush was inpower... thing is it didn't go have a look (i did). Sure every now and again there was a bush did a silly but there wasn't a new thread every 12h to micro-analyse some aspect of what Obama is doing...

OTW use to be fun. Now its just a us political wannabe Libertarian dumping ground for those who can't change to vent.
There has to be something that can be done, its becoming less and less interesting to go into otw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
charly wrote:
Can there PLEASE be a Politics sub-forum? I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing


oblahblahblahblah


I agree, its getting tiring. The advocates of such posts say the same thing happened when bush was inpower... thing is it didn't go have a look (i did). Sure every now and again there was a bush did a silly but there wasn't a new thread every 12h to micro-analyse some aspect of what Obama is doing...

OTW use to be fun. Now its just a us political wannabe Libertarian dumping ground for those who can't change to vent.
There has to be something that can be done, its becoming less and less interesting to go into otw

I want to talk about things in news and things in the computer related sphere without having to wade through all Obama related rubbish.

I'm not saying there should be no political discussion, things like "is a tax increase necessary?" is far different from "Oblabla thinks his shit don't stink but Limbaugh says different"
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Naib
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

charly wrote:
Naib wrote:
charly wrote:
Can there PLEASE be a Politics sub-forum? I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing


oblahblahblahblah


I agree, its getting tiring. The advocates of such posts say the same thing happened when bush was inpower... thing is it didn't go have a look (i did). Sure every now and again there was a bush did a silly but there wasn't a new thread every 12h to micro-analyse some aspect of what Obama is doing...

OTW use to be fun. Now its just a us political wannabe Libertarian dumping ground for those who can't change to vent.
There has to be something that can be done, its becoming less and less interesting to go into otw

I want to talk about things in news and things in the computer related sphere without having to wade through all Obama related rubbish.

I'm not saying there should be no political discussion, things like "is a tax increase necessary?" is far different from "Oblabla thinks his shit don't stink but Limbaugh says different"


exactly. round bushes time the variety of posts was alot wider. politics stuff is good.
Now? its just trash
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
OTW use to be fun. Now its just a us political wannabe Libertarian dumping ground for those who can't change to vent.
There has to be something that can be done, its becoming less and less interesting to go into otw


Just think of it like an episode of Jackass where, instead of a bunch of dumb jocks throwing themselves at a wall in a shopping trolley, there are a bunch of dumb, libertarian wingnuts leaping off the cliffs of dogma and falling splat onto the rocks of reason with a satisfying, meaty thwhack.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
charly wrote:
Naib wrote:
charly wrote:
Can there PLEASE be a Politics sub-forum? I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing


oblahblahblahblah


I agree, its getting tiring. The advocates of such posts say the same thing happened when bush was inpower... thing is it didn't go have a look (i did). Sure every now and again there was a bush did a silly but there wasn't a new thread every 12h to micro-analyse some aspect of what Obama is doing...

OTW use to be fun. Now its just a us political wannabe Libertarian dumping ground for those who can't change to vent.
There has to be something that can be done, its becoming less and less interesting to go into otw

I want to talk about things in news and things in the computer related sphere without having to wade through all Obama related rubbish.

I'm not saying there should be no political discussion, things like "is a tax increase necessary?" is far different from "Oblabla thinks his shit don't stink but Limbaugh says different"


exactly. round bushes time the variety of posts was alot wider. politics stuff is good.
Now? its just trash

What is stopping you guys from posting what you feel is interesting? I'm asking that as a legitimate question, not trying to be a smartass.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Naib wrote:
charly wrote:
Naib wrote:
charly wrote:
Can there PLEASE be a Politics sub-forum? I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing


oblahblahblahblah


I agree, its getting tiring. The advocates of such posts say the same thing happened when bush was inpower... thing is it didn't go have a look (i did). Sure every now and again there was a bush did a silly but there wasn't a new thread every 12h to micro-analyse some aspect of what Obama is doing...

OTW use to be fun. Now its just a us political wannabe Libertarian dumping ground for those who can't change to vent.
There has to be something that can be done, its becoming less and less interesting to go into otw

I want to talk about things in news and things in the computer related sphere without having to wade through all Obama related rubbish.

I'm not saying there should be no political discussion, things like "is a tax increase necessary?" is far different from "Oblabla thinks his shit don't stink but Limbaugh says different"


exactly. round bushes time the variety of posts was alot wider. politics stuff is good.
Now? its just trash

What is stopping you guys from posting what you feel is interesting? I'm asking that as a legitimate question, not trying to be a smartass.


because somehow even those get twisted into some "how obama has failed" discussion.

its getting tiring and is ruining OTW. Its already caused people to leave these forums. The more ppl leave the more polarised discussion will become and how diverse topic are will decrease

So how about something is done about it
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Etal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for comparison, here's what OTW looked like in 2005 (back when I started with Gentoo):
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-10-topicdays-0-start-35000.html
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Old School
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etal wrote:
Just for comparison, here's what OTW looked like in 2005 (back when I started with Gentoo):
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-10-topicdays-0-start-35000.html

Apples and oranges. The Gentoo Forums (not just OTW) at that time had a lot more active members. And 99% of them were using Gentoo Linux. The demographics have changed in OTW. Many of the newer folks don't even use Linux, let alone Gentoo. And if you notice, some of those complaining about OTW are noobs (time wise) compared to many of the regulars. If they find it objectionable, maybe they made a mistake in their choice of forums.

My former statement stands. Post what you feel is interesting. Don't blame others for what they find entertaining.
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charly
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Etal wrote:
Just for comparison, here's what OTW looked like in 2005 (back when I started with Gentoo):
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-10-topicdays-0-start-35000.html

Apples and oranges. The Gentoo Forums (not just OTW) at that time had a lot more active members. And 99% of them were using Gentoo Linux. The demographics have changed in OTW. Many of the newer folks don't even use Linux, let alone Gentoo. And if you notice, some of those complaining about OTW are noobs (time wise) compared to many of the regulars. If they find it objectionable, maybe they made a mistake in their choice of forums.

My former statement stands. Post what you feel is interesting. Don't blame others for what they find entertaining.
the problem is that anything that is interesting either gets lost in the sea of OMGBAMA IZ TEH ANTICHRIST or someone makes a comment and the thread itself turns into that.

We're not saying you can't OMGBAMA, just do it in a separate forum before all the people who want to talk about computers leave
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Old School
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

charly wrote:
Old School wrote:
Etal wrote:
Just for comparison, here's what OTW looked like in 2005 (back when I started with Gentoo):
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-10-topicdays-0-start-35000.html

Apples and oranges. The Gentoo Forums (not just OTW) at that time had a lot more active members. And 99% of them were using Gentoo Linux. The demographics have changed in OTW. Many of the newer folks don't even use Linux, let alone Gentoo. And if you notice, some of those complaining about OTW are noobs (time wise) compared to many of the regulars. If they find it objectionable, maybe they made a mistake in their choice of forums.

My former statement stands. Post what you feel is interesting. Don't blame others for what they find entertaining.
the problem is that anything that is interesting either gets lost in the sea of OMGBAMA IZ TEH ANTICHRIST or someone makes a comment and the thread itself turns into that.

We're not saying you can't OMGBAMA, just do it in a separate forum before all the people who want to talk about computers leave

I just checked OTW, and of the over forty threads on the first page, less than a half dozen have anything to do with Obama, or morphed to Obama. So much for a sea of OMGBAMA IZ TEH ANTICHRIST. You can keep posting more stuff about computers like This One.
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charly
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
charly wrote:
Old School wrote:
Etal wrote:
Just for comparison, here's what OTW looked like in 2005 (back when I started with Gentoo):
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum-f-10-topicdays-0-start-35000.html

Apples and oranges. The Gentoo Forums (not just OTW) at that time had a lot more active members. And 99% of them were using Gentoo Linux. The demographics have changed in OTW. Many of the newer folks don't even use Linux, let alone Gentoo. And if you notice, some of those complaining about OTW are noobs (time wise) compared to many of the regulars. If they find it objectionable, maybe they made a mistake in their choice of forums.

My former statement stands. Post what you feel is interesting. Don't blame others for what they find entertaining.
the problem is that anything that is interesting either gets lost in the sea of OMGBAMA IZ TEH ANTICHRIST or someone makes a comment and the thread itself turns into that.

We're not saying you can't OMGBAMA, just do it in a separate forum before all the people who want to talk about computers leave

I just checked OTW, and of the over forty threads on the first page, less than a half dozen have anything to do with Obama, or morphed to Obama. So much for a sea of OMGBAMA IZ TEH ANTICHRIST.
So at a very low time of Obama activity a minimum of 15% of threads seem devoted to it? :lol:

Then there is the fact that the actual amount of *pages* devoted to it makes it then jump to 40% because of the people arguing. Have a sub-forum and argue to your heart's content, leave all the technical and fun stuff to OTW
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Etal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Apples and oranges.

That's a rather poor analogy. In 6 years, an apple can turn into a new tree, or it could turn into dirt, but in no way would in turn into an orange.

Old School wrote:
The Gentoo Forums (not just OTW) at that time had a lot more active members.

Yet OTW was twice less active than now, so your point does not hold.

Old School wrote:
And 99% of them were using Gentoo Linux. The demographics have changed in OTW. Many of the newer folks don't even use Linux, let alone Gentoo.

Then what are they doing on Gentoo Forums?

Old School wrote:
And if you notice, some of those complaining about OTW are noobs (time wise) compared to many of the regulars.

No I don't. Examples would be appreciated. I certainly don't see it in this thread.

Old School wrote:
If they find it objectionable, maybe they made a mistake in their choice of forums.

So if I understand you correctly, if I want to have coherent discussion on a non-Gentoo topic, I should just find a different forum. Is that what you're saying?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etal wrote:
Then what are they doing on Gentoo Forums?


I've often wondered the same. While having old Gentoo users stick around in the forums is a blessing, having annoying non-Gentoo people just show up and start posting exclusively in OTW is something other than a blessing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

charly wrote:
I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing
So ignore that which you don't care to read and post "decent" things. There isn't that much traffic volume so as to cause threads to drop off page 1 that quickly. Especially if they are topics people are interested in.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
charly wrote:
I want to talk about decent things, everything gets lost in the Obama bashing
So ignore that which you don't care to read and post "decent" things. There isn't that much traffic volume so as to cause threads to drop off page 1 that quickly. Especially if they are topics people are interested in.
You get dragged into thing and threads change.

If there is a politics sub-forum then the geeks that we are can chat about geeky stuff, that would be useful because all the people who don't want to talk politics, don't want to get into an argument and dont want to be banned can chat and look through the week's threads because there won't be 50 Obama threads a day being posted.

It must put people off, especially those who are non-confrontational, when they see all the shit throwing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etal wrote:
Then what are they doing on Gentoo Forums?

Good question.

Etal wrote:
So if I understand you correctly, if I want to have coherent discussion on a non-Gentoo topic, I should just find a different forum. Is that what you're saying?

That was not what I said. Maybe you should go back and read what I said. That was in relation to new people complaining about OTW. People with a join date of April 2011 for example.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So new users opinions are worth less?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Etal wrote:
Then what are they doing on Gentoo Forums?

Good question.

Etal wrote:
So if I understand you correctly, if I want to have coherent discussion on a non-Gentoo topic, I should just find a different forum. Is that what you're saying?

That was not what I said. Maybe you should go back and read what I said. That was in relation to new people complaining about OTW. People with a join date of April 2011 for example.


so what about me? exactly the same complain but a joindate of May 2004.
ie the date of joining is irrelevant. If somone who has only been here for what 2months can see how broken OTW is isn't that a clear sign something should be done, especially when alligned with someone who has been here quite some time
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone has only been here for two months, they have no baseline to judge OTW. And who knows, they might be part of the problem. After all, some are just trolls. One new member is complaining about a lack of computer related posts, yet after a cursory look at their posts show a lack of posting anything of the sort.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
If someone has only been here for two months, they have no baseline to judge OTW. And who knows, they might be part of the problem. After all, some are just trolls. One new member is complaining about a lack of computer related posts, yet after a cursory look at their posts show a lack of posting anything of the sort.


Person A been here 1 second
Person B been here 100 years

Person A has the same observation as Person B

ergo the time here is redundant
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

charly wrote:
If there is a politics sub-forum then the geeks that we are can chat about geeky stuff, that would be useful because all the people who don't want to talk politics, don't want to get into an argument and dont want to be banned can chat and look through the week's threads because there won't be 50 Obama threads a day being posted.

It must put people off, especially those who are non-confrontational, when they see all the shit throwing.


I wouldn't worry about getting banned. You might be called a troll if your world-view doesn't conform to a narrow-minded, right-wing American stereotype. Just remember not to call John Wayne gay and you should be fine (he was though).

If you pick out a selection of posts at random, it seems clear that vicious rants and insults are standard fare. I'd like to think some of them are tongue in cheek but I'm not always sure about that. Maybe if you murdered someone you might get banned. Maybe. If he was an Obama supporter you'd probably get made a mod.

The only way to deal with OTW is not to take it too seriously. Just remember that fair is foul and foul is fair here and try to have a laugh about it. Every wingnut is hurting inside as a result of their inadequate, narrow world-view. However much they might piss and moan, they secretly yearn for some left-wing love to remind them they're still human.
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