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think4urs11
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo.

Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one.
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

think4urs11 wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo.

Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one.


Usually businesses are run by clueless people, which could be why they tend to run RHEL instead of Gentoo.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
think4urs11 wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo.

Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one.


Usually businesses are run by clueless people, which could be why they tend to run RHEL instead of Gentoo.


Most companies tend to run commercial distros like RHEL because they get gaurantees in writing that problems will be fixed within a certain timeframe. It doesn't matter if they never actually need this service or not, they need it to be there just in case they need it.

RedHat supply a solution to a demand. That's what (good) businesses do.

It's also a disservice to all the work that RedHat has contributed to open source over the years to pretend that those who work purely for the fun of it are somehow better than RedHat. I'm sure there are many contributors doing it just for fun who would love to be in the position of RedHat employees, getting paid for it too.
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
d2_racing wrote:
Yeah, that's why Gentoo needs an official wiki ASAP.

We're working on that.


Yeah, I had 150 messages on my dev box because of that subject and the other one too :P
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllenJB wrote:
Most companies tend to run commercial distros like RHEL because they get gaurantees in writing that problems will be fixed within a certain timeframe. It doesn't matter if they never actually need this service or not, they need it to be there just in case they need it.

RedHat supply a solution to a demand. That's what (good) businesses do.

It's also a disservice to all the work that RedHat has contributed to open source over the years to pretend that those who work purely for the fun of it are somehow better than RedHat. I'm sure there are many contributors doing it just for fun who would love to be in the position of RedHat employees, getting paid for it too.


They have done a great deal, but I do not think RHEL is inherently better than Gentoo Linux such that it would justify that businesses use RHEL instead of Gentoo Linux. The fact that businesses use RHEL means that any fixes that a business would have done with Gentoo that could potentially benefit all Gentoo users never happens and instead is done by RedHat and sent upstream. Gentoo only sees it after it trickles down from upstream and with the limited resources of Gentoo's developers, that can take a while.

With all of the money that businesses pay to Redhat, I think that they could probably afford to have their own in-house team to work on whatever distribution they choose to use.
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think4urs11
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
think4urs11 wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo.

Only to clueless people though. There are tons of possible reasons and the linux distro in use (if at all) is not the most prominent one.


Usually businesses are run by clueless people, which could be why they tend to run RHEL instead of Gentoo.

And your point is?
(Cluess) CEO/CFO/CIO-alphabet soup people deciding between Gentoo/Puppy/Vector-linux based on website availability for the OS to be used on their buiness servers?
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yngwin
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
AllenJB wrote:
I hate it when peopple bring up the "official" thing. In my experience the Gentoo Forums are unavailable just as frequently as Gentoo Wiki. Having Gentoo Wiki as an official project is not a magic bullet.


Here is a question. Why are these resources going down so frequently? I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo.

It has not so much to do with the servers, as the www.gentoo.org website is practically always available. The problem is more the forums software, as there isn't really any open source package that doing this really well, especially at the volume we need. The forums team is doing a great job, all things considered, into making phpBB usable at all for our needs. I don't think the unofficial wiki has quite the amount of traffic and extensive database that our forums have, so I don't think the comparison is really fair.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
d2_racing wrote:
Yeah, that's why Gentoo needs an official wiki ASAP.

We're working on that.


I really wouldn't put so much faith in such discussions. This isn't the first time an official wiki has been discussed. It's happened many times before and nothing has ever come of it. I doubt anything will ever come of this discussion either.

There are 2 major problems with the official wiki concept:
1) Developers can never agree what the wiki should contain, what the restrictions should be and who would put in the day-to-day work of maintaining such a wiki and keeping it spam free.

2) Nobody makes any moves towards implementing the wiki. At the end of the day, discussion frequently achieves nothing. You need the Nike attitude if you want things to happen.
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
AllenJB wrote:
I hate it when peopple bring up the "official" thing. In my experience the Gentoo Forums are unavailable just as frequently as Gentoo Wiki. Having Gentoo Wiki as an official project is not a magic bullet.


Here is a question. Why are these resources going down so frequently? I assume that the servers involved run Gentoo Linux, so the down time reflects poorly on Gentoo.

It has not so much to do with the servers, as the www.gentoo.org website is practically always available. The problem is more the forums software, as there isn't really any open source package that doing this really well, especially at the volume we need. The forums team is doing a great job, all things considered, into making phpBB usable at all for our needs. I don't think the unofficial wiki has quite the amount of traffic and extensive database that our forums have, so I don't think the comparison is really fair.


Are the forums using a PostgreSQL backend or a MySQL backend? I understand that phpBB supports PostgreSQL, so if they is not using that, switching might help.
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yngwin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllenJB wrote:
yngwin wrote:
d2_racing wrote:
Yeah, that's why Gentoo needs an official wiki ASAP.

We're working on that.


I really wouldn't put so much faith in such discussions. This isn't the first time an official wiki has been discussed. It's happened many times before and nothing has ever come of it. I doubt anything will ever come of this discussion either.

There are 2 major problems with the official wiki concept:
1) Developers can never agree what the wiki should contain, what the restrictions should be and who would put in the day-to-day work of maintaining such a wiki and keeping it spam free.

There is agreement now, and we are forming a team. So far 10 people, both developers and users, have volunteered.

AllenJB wrote:
2) Nobody makes any moves towards implementing the wiki.

This is exactly what we are doing now.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if it would finally be up and official, I'd volunteer for some day2day work, hoping there'll be a better backup-strategy than the unofficial one has/had. I hate it, when I spent a lot of work, all of a sudden it's gone and I can't do anything about it.

Related to restrictions, I'd say registered users only, linked against the userdb of the forums and 20 non-OTW-posts are needed to start on the wiki. That should keep most of the spammers out, espacially if you link forum-bans to the wiki-accs and the other way round.
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richard.scott
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See here for info on an Official Gentoo Wiki:

http://ben.liveforge.org/2010/04/05/announcing-the-gentoo-wiki-project

They're looking for volunteers too :D
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the project is actually started :P
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah ! :P
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merged from here.
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DancesWithWords
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:30 am    Post subject: gentoo wiki Reply with quote

Can some else check the gentoo wiki, I can't seem to access it, I'm just wondering if it is my connection?
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mikegpitt
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: gentoo wiki Reply with quote

DancesWithWords wrote:
Can some else check the gentoo wiki, I can't seem to access it, I'm just wondering if it is my connection?
It appears down for me at the moment too.
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PatomaS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Yes, seems down for now.

Bye
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merged from here.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richard.scott in April 2010 wrote:
... an Official Gentoo Wiki ...

d2_racing in April 2010 wrote:
Yeah, the project is actually started :P


Long time ago there was a "Official Gentoo Wiki" project.

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/wiki/

What is the current state now?
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davidm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been able to connect to it for a few days. I will look into ways to grab it from the Google cache and/or other archives tonight just in case....unless someone already has an archive of it or someone knows what is going on?

While it's not an official wiki and there are still the official docs on Gentoo.org, I have still found it quite useful in the past.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is always www.gentoo-wiki.info which is a snapshot taken when their database was lost.[/url]
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For whatever reason, the site seems to go down this time of year as the gsoc gets underway.

As for the "official" gentoo wiki, it seems to have wavered due most probably to a lack of manpower
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More like a lack of will by the supreme beings to let us mere mortals contribute. Any moron can throw up a mediawiki installation in literally minutes. 'Man power' has just become apologist for uselessness.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As per usual, Gentoo has some of the best documentation around; for example. And more good news, you can access it right now. The trouble is you can't be sure for how long gentoo-wiki.com will be up. I don't care whether our wiki is official or not, I just want reliable access, please.
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