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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:18 pm    Post subject: SETI under linux vs Windows? Reply with quote

I've noticed my time dropping for SETI results under linux (instead of Win2K Pro). Has anyone else noticed speed improvements (with SETI) under linux?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is the deal, linux doesn't really process the seti work any faster BUT, it does give more time to it, as windows is too busy doing absolutly nothing but requireing CPU time to do it.....

sweet huh? :)

just another reason why microsoft is :evil: and :twisted: .

but ill certainly be :D using linux getting better seti times :)

dont hurt my for the blatantly rediculous use of the smilys :!:
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syadnom wrote:
here is the deal, linux doesn't really process the seti work any faster BUT, it does give more time to it, as windows is too busy doing absolutly nothing but requireing CPU time to do it.....
Thats what I was assuming.

Quote:
sweet huh? :)
Unless you happen to be a user of the Blue Virus :lol:

Quote:
just another reason why microsoft is :evil: and :twisted: .
:evil: and :twisted: aren't necessarily bad, just the MS version of them is ;)

Quote:
dont hurt my for the blatantly rediculous use of the smilys :!:
:?: Blatant and ridiculous? 8O No way :!: :D
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the:
Quote:

just another reason why microsoft is icon_evil.gif and icon_twisted.gif

was not specifically targeted at the seti program of coarse, but the point that windows is so bloated with "features" that it makes everything run slower.



as a side point, notice that i will no longer capitolize microsoft or windows as i do not consider them a proper noun, intead they will always be lower case. i would make them sub lower case but i can't convince my shift key to handle that sort of operation.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syadnom wrote:

as a side point, notice that i will no longer capitolize microsoft or windows as i do not consider them a proper noun, intead they will always be lower case. i would make them sub lower case but i can't convince my shift key to handle that sort of operation.


I also noticed that you did not capitalize "linux", or even your own name "syadnom". What are we to make of that?


:)

cheers,

steb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syadnom wrote:
the:
Quote:

just another reason why microsoft is icon_evil.gif and icon_twisted.gif

was not specifically targeted at the seti program of coarse
Neither was mine. I meant twisted and evil is not necessarily bad, just the MS version of twisted and evil.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2002 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux, happy :)

i specifically do not capitolize the nick, for reasons of my own. :)

as for linux:

microsoft is a corporation, and windows is a product where

linux is a community and linux is a representation of that community, their is no company to call linux, their is no single OS that is linux. linux is a group of OS's like RedHat, Mandrake Linux, GNU/Linux, Debian Linux.., and linux is a kernel. linux is much more than one thing, i conside the word linux like the word car, and i dont capitolize the world car.

notice i do capitolize proper linux company names such as Redhat or Mandrake, mostly :)

also notice that i dont capitolize very much of anything sometimes or use the proper punctuation for the most part.

i do fail to capitolize gentoo though, because the little g looks cooler than the big G. and just look at the image at the top left, looks like a little g right?

anyway, im done with the completely off topic rant.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syadnom wrote:
Microsoft is a corporation

True
syadnom wrote:
and windows is a product

True
syadnom wrote:
linux is a community and linux is a representation of that community

No. There is a Linux community, and there are Linux users, but Linux is an OS. The word "Linux" is not a general term used to describe it's user base.
syadnom wrote:
their is no company to call linux,

True. There are also no companies called "Windows", "Solaris" or "Mac OS" either.
syadnom wrote:
their is no single OS that is linux

There is a Linux OS. Whether this OS is installed on a laptop, PDA or server. Whether it is included in the Rehdat, Mandrake or Debian distributions, it is still the Linux OS. People might patch it, or update it, or hack it - doesnt change the fact.

syadnom wrote:
linux is a group of OS's like RedHat, Mandrake Linux, GNU/Linux, Debian Linux

These are not OS's. They are simply Linux distributions - big difference.
These companies (for the most part) do not directly work on the core Linux OS. They might offer advice, bug reports and suggestions to the Linux kernel development team. A Linux distribution is simply a package of disperate programs, patches and installers along with the Linux kernel. They are not operating system companies in the traditional sense.

syadnom wrote:
linux is much more than one thing, i consider the word linux like the word car, and i dont capitolize the world car

Your analogy doesn't wash. Linux is a proper noun. It is the name of an operating system. And it is a "product". A product is a work put together for consumption by the public. Whether it is sold or given freely, whether it is tangible or simply the "product" of one's imagination (such as a story, or song), whereas the word "car" is a common noun.
Common nouns are general names - thus, they are not capitalized unless they begin a sentence or are part of a title. Proper nouns, those that name specific things (such as the "Linux Operating System"), are the class of nouns that require capitalization. Whether you choose to employ the capitalization is your choice.


whew. i used to hate people like me when i was younger.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in case you are wondering, that was my message above - from guest. keep forgetting to login. just thought i'd let you know so you can properly direct your retort and anger


(yet another thread hijacked, and diverted from it's original course) .

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

linux community, their is a community, that community builds the OS and the OS is a product of that community. just like a chevy or ford is american, its not where the parts are made, its WHO made the parts if you know what i mean. Yes linux is an/many OS(s) , i think we are both right on this one..

also, linux is not a trademark, Windows is, so windows is who the tradmarks is, so windows is microsoft. the same for solaris and MacOS. they represent the company that makes them because they are a trade mark of that company.

i do completely dissagree with the
Quote:
m wrote:
linux is a group of OS's like RedHat, Mandrake Linux, GNU/Linux, Debian linux

These are not OS's. They are simply linux distributions - big difference.

part.. RedHat absolutely is and OS, as well as Mandrake , and Debian...they are a complete OS, while the "Core" linux is NOT an OS, but a kernel. Redhat integrates the linux Kernel and GNU software to make an OS. Mandrake takes redhats and alters it, but linux is not an OS, it is a kernel, while GNU/Linux is an OS, or group of OSs or distrobutions if you will.

and linux is NOT an operating system, GNU/Linux is, linux is a kernel, it is a chunck of C Code that occupies in the neighborhood of .5-2MB, and is absolutely NOT an OS, as linux cannot accept user input or actually do anything, it requires applications to handle this, such as sh/tsch/bash and X and whatever...

this is also why distros like debian/slack/redhat can vary directory layouts and why gentoo can avoid having runlevel 1-5 and instead offer, boot/default/nonetwork instead, each vendor produces a OS, that is a product, that uses linux(the kernel) as a base.


a "car" is:
Quote:
A product is a work put together for consumption by the public. Whether it is sold or given freely, whether it is tangible or simply the "product" of one's imagination


so linux is just as common a noun as car, or monitor, or computer.

and as i said before, the "Linux Operating System" absolutely does not exsist. linux is a kernel, nothing more. you replace the linux kernel with a BSD kernel, and still have all of the other exact same software, that does not mean you run linux.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those with a clue please step forward... Not so quick Mr. Syadnom.

"Linux" is a trademarked name. check Ownership of LINUX ® Trademark Resolved.

I would also suggest you do a little reading about what operating systems are. Here's a simple definition for you to start: operating system definition

But please dont stop there. do a search in google to find out more.


enjoy driving your car.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Hat etc. are distrobutions, NOT an OS. Easy misunderstanding. Linux the OS does not come with much. Red Hat and other distros ship the Linux OS with packages, tools etc. that they decide to include. For example, awk is not part of Linux the OS. Unless this is a bad example, awk does not have to be included in a distro. Consider Gentoo. You have to manually download (emerge) a package to install it. I've read this many times, so with the correct search terms, I'm sure the Great Oracle would find them.

No I'm not searching, because I've already read several articles/commentaries on the subject.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost forgot... I'd have locked the thread if I were a moderator ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

of coarse "linux" is trademarked, and a quote from cybercounsel.com does not make the phase "Linux OS" legit. linux is a kernel, nothing more.

and how does the linux kernel qualify as an OS? the kernel alone cannot manage all other programs on the computer, how can it, it cannot accept input or even start the programs by itself? it must have another program to accept input, and yet another to redirect precessed data back to that program or other programs. this is why the argeument has existed about calling linux GNU/Linux, as their is no OS without some basic functions supplied by the GNU side..

and yes, RedHat is an OS, it has a linux kernel and a set of GNU apps that make an OS,

note that im not saying that an OS requiers a GUI or even a prompt, but does requer a method to recieve and send data to manage other apps use of hardware resources and interprocess communication.

Do you consider windows 95 and 98 and Me the same OS? or are they just distrobutions of Win32?

microsoft considers win95 and win98 and winMe, even though they do use the same kernel, just many of the UI programs have been changed or updated, programs that are requiered to set up basic communications with the kernel.

and linux the OS does not come to much, because it is not an OS, just a kernel. GNU/Linux is the OS.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I give up. You simply refuse to listen, read or research. You fail miserably to understand what an operating system is, and what defines an OS. - and because of this the rest of your arguements are fataly flawed.

first you say:
Quote:
also, linux is not a trademark, Windows is

I prove you wrong, then you say
Quote:
of coarse "linux" is trademarked

then this little gem:
Quote:
and is absolutely NOT an OS, as linux cannot accept user input or actually do anything, it requires applications to handle this, such as sh/tsch/bash and X and whatever

again, you have to backtrack a little with:
Quote:
note that im not saying that an OS requiers a GUI or even a prompt, but does requer a method to recieve and send data to manage other apps use of hardware resources and interprocess communication.


But that's neither here nor there.

Your failure is in the understanding of what an OS is and is not.
The Linux kernel DOES provide methods and means to mangage processes, applications, hardware, and send inter process communication. That is the main goal of the Linux kernel, and of ANY operating system for that matter. I would provide many links to technical manuals describing how linux manages this - but you most likely will not bother to read any of them.

It is painfully obvious that you do not want to learn the truth, so i wish you a good day.

someone please stick a fork in this thread. it's done.

steb
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

linux is not a trademark of a company, it does not represent a specific product developed, designed, marketed, and distributed by a company. yes the individual Linus Torvalds does own a copyright and trademark on the name "linux" this is on the NAME, and use of the name. he also owns copyright and trademark on the "linux kernel", the actual kernel, not just the name, but that is pretty much covered by his copyright on the NAME 'linux". their is a difference between copyright on a name and copyright on the code.

when you use the name linux you do not refer to the operating system that Linux Torvalds owns, or runs, or developed, or marketed. you do refer to the GNU/Linux OS, and you do just refer to this as "linux" as nobody(correction, not everybody) in the comminity will hassle you about not saying GNU/Linux every time instead of linux, but common speech does not make "linux" an OS.

-

since when does the use of "such as" mean "only like"?

such as sh/tsch/bash, yes, those are programs that would fit this role, but apache could be this program, or any simple program that communicated with the kernel, the kernel needs something to talk to, or it just sits alone, very lonely with nothing to do.

and a kernel sitting alone is not an OS, if you read the link you posted for me to read, you will see that a requerment is that the "OS" must communicate with programs to be an OS, so the OS is essentially the most basic set of programs that occomplish this goal, and since the kernel can't do this alone, it is not an OS, re-read it, do you not read this as well?

Quote:
An operating system (sometimes abbreviated as "OS") is the program that, after being initially loaded into the computer by a boot program, manages all the other programs in a computer.


so you need a kernel to access hardware rescources AND and interface(not necessarily a prompt or GUI) to handle communication to the applications so that it might control them? bash fits this role, though it is not the only way to do it, Qt or gtk+ can fill this CRUCIAL role,

try this:
Quote:
operating system

<operating system> (OS) The low-level software which handles the interface to peripheral hardware, schedules tasks, allocates storage, and presents a default interface to the user when no application program is running.

The OS may be split into a kernel which is always present and various system programs which use facilities provided by the kernel to perform higher-level house-keeping tasks, often acting as servers in a client-server relationship.

Some would include a graphical user interface and window system as part of the OS, others would not. The operating system loader, BIOS, or other firmware required at boot time or when installing the operating system would generally not be considered part of the operating system, though this distinction is unclear in the case of a rommable operating system such as RISC OS.

The facilities an operating system provides and its general design philosophy exert an extremely strong influence on programming style and on the technical cultures that grow up around the machines on which it runs.

Example operating systems include 386BSD, AIX, AOS, Amoeba, Angel, Artemis microkernel, BeOS, Brazil, COS, CP/M, CTSS, Chorus, DACNOS, DOSEXEC 2, GCOS, GEORGE 3, GEOS, ITS, KAOS, GNU/Linux, LynxOS, MPV, MS-DOS, MVS, Mach, Macintosh operating system, MINIX, Multics, Multipop-68, Novell NetWare, OS-9, OS/2, Pick, Plan 9, QNX, RISC OS, STING, System V, System/360, TOPS-10, TOPS-20, TRUSIX, TWENEX, TYMCOM-X, Thoth, Unix, VM/CMS, VMS, VRTX, VSTa, VxWorks, WAITS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT.

source : http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=operating+system

notice Kernel AND system programs. both are required to have an OS.

-------------
i dont know if we will ever convince each other of our seperate point of views, and continuing profits nobody. but you do offer compelling arguements and i give you credit on that. and you did spend time and effort to justify you point of view and i give credit thier as well.

[Moderators] i suggest a lock on this thread as it no longer ever resembles an on topic thread in any way.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syadnom wrote:
linux is not a trademark of a company, it does not represent a specific product developed, designed, marketed, and distributed by a company.

so? there is NO difference whether the trademark is related to a company or an individual. This is irrelevant. But at least you are no longer claiming that there is no such trademark.

syadnom wrote:

yes the individual Linus Torvalds does own a copyright and trademark on the name "linux" this is on the NAME, and use of the name. he also owns copyright and trademark on the "linux kernel", the actual kernel, not just the name, but that is pretty much covered by his copyright on the NAME 'linux". their is a difference between copyright on a name and copyright on the code

umm... there is no such thing as a copyright on a "name". you can trademark a name, but you cannot copyright a "name".
Linus owns the trademark on the name "Linux", and a copyright on the code he writes and publishes (as does anyone who writes code. a copyright does not have to be registered with any governement body before it takes effect. registration is usually done to solidify the owners rights in any potential future lawsuits), but is not manditory.

syadnom wrote:
since when does the use of "such as" mean "only like"?

such as sh/tsch/bash, yes, those are programs that would fit this role, but apache could be this program, or any simple program that communicated with the kernel, the kernel needs something to talk to, or it just sits alone, very lonely with nothing to do.


Are you telling me that if I do not install anything other than linux on my system, that it is not an operating system? That is ridiculous.


The last issue is your reference that the term "Linux" is totally different from "Gnu/Linux".

I have heard this arguement thousands of times before, but I fail to see what the difference is. Linux is built with GNU. When the kernel is refered to today, GNU is implied. When the kernel was young, the distinction was made, but as the use of GNU of now rampant in Linux, why is the distinction still needed?

PLEASE read the following online [url="book by David Rusling"]book by David Rusling[/url]. It is a good overview of what the kernel does and does not do.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, when both participants in a flamefest ask for the thread to be shut down, and a moderator-who-wasn't-one-at-the-time also pleaded for it earlier, then I guess it's time to turn out the lights.
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