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The Earth
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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 Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm glad my daughter has dual citizenship. She won't be stuck in this mess.
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speeddemon
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Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | speeddemon wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | so it's basically all stuffing and no substance. If they proposed a bill to create a facsimile of the NHS would it get rejected 500 - 0 ? |
Pretty much. I don't think a NHS style plan would have gotten rejected that badly, but if they had tried to push it through in the same way with the same public sentiment that exists now it probably wouldn't have passed.
I do think that it would have been possible to come up with a plan that could completely replace medicare(current old people plan) and medicaid(current poor people plan) and completely close the gaps that the poor fall through. If they would have focused on that without significantly disturbing the insurance industry for the time being, they probably could have passed it. Then deal with insurance reform in a separate bill, as it should be.
The biggest problem is we should have this thing crafted by an independent committee, not a bunch of politicians who are interested in votes. |
I think the US style of lobbying on issues such as these really shows the problem with the current style.
Btw, I love this quote: | Quote: | | Emotions have been running high at times with Republicans warning of government tyranny, a European-style "nanny state" and an end to freedom. |
"European-style "nanny state" and an end to freedom"? What on earth? Where do they think we live - where do they think *they* live would be a better question. |
Don't even get me started on lobbyists. They do good about .5% of the time, and the other 99.5% they're serving themselves. The idea is they are presenting information about issues to the lawmakers, information the lawmakers would not have the time or resources to obtain by themselves. Problem is, its ALWAYS self serving, which means its always biased as hell.
Good luck fixing that one though. We'll all be living on mars after its been terraformed before they fix that problem.
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speeddemon
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Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | I'm glad my daughter has dual citizenship. She won't be stuck in this mess. |
Guess Im just going to have to win the lottery or strike it rich some other way so I can buy my island in the caribbean and leave this mess behind.
Live off of fish and coconuts, and stray tourists whose boats I can manage to sink...
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Mardok45
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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Location: Right behind you
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | So, we're passing a law which may not be legal, and you're wanting to live in Europe which has had socialist health care for a long time? I'm not understanding your interest in flight? |
This bill was done behind closed doors and I don't have the patience nor the IQ to read that overcomplicated thing that was posted on the White House's website, so how much bullshit was thrown in there that the people don't want (along with everything we do know)?
I don't have a problem with socialist healthcare, it's just that we're not in the position to reform healthcare right now. In the position we're in right now, I'm for fixing the insurance companies (or rather, the things affecting the insurance companies). I don't know how much taxes are affecting the common people in other countries that have socialist healthcare, but shouldn't you at least expect the healthcare in your country to be somewhat good if you're paying for taxes and insurance, assuming that paying for both taxes and healthcare is more than just taxes in a socialist healthcare society? I admit I'm not completely up to date on the facts of the bill that was passed, or for that matter, the current ranking of the US's healthcare internationally.
| pjp wrote: | | It certainly isn't because this law is too far reaching, 'cause Europe's laws are far more reaching. Or are you banking they'll sooner go so far the wrong way that they'll become sane again? |
Yeah, pretty much. |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:42 am Post subject: |
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I dont understand why, our healthcare is 100% free and the the cost is half yours.
Btw, Karl Rove is the anti-christ, I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth
Last edited by cokehabit on Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Earth
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| speeddemon wrote: | | Chopinzee wrote: | | I'm glad my daughter has dual citizenship. She won't be stuck in this mess. |
Guess Im just going to have to win the lottery or strike it rich some other way so I can buy my island in the caribbean and leave this mess behind.
Live off of fish and coconuts, and stray tourists whose boats I can manage to sink... |
Costa Rica. It's cheap, it's capitalist, extremely low taxes, their military is our military (they don't have one), and the crime is lower than most of "SoUSA".
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Mardok45 wrote: | | I don't have a problem with socialist healthcare, it's just that we're not in the position to reform healthcare right now. In the position we're in right now, I'm for fixing the insurance companies (or rather, the things affecting the insurance companies). I don't know how much taxes are affecting the common people in other countries that have socialist healthcare, but shouldn't you at least expect the healthcare in your country to be somewhat good if you're paying for taxes and insurance, assuming that paying for both taxes and healthcare is more than just taxes in a socialist healthcare society? I admit I'm not completely up to date on the facts of the bill that was passed, or for that matter, the current ranking of the US's healthcare internationally. |
from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
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dreadlorde
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
Yeah, that'll work. Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches.
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Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
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drizek
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:49 am Post subject: |
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lol@sandyvaginas
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The Earth
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| drizek wrote: | | lol@sandyvaginas |
Girls from the desert?
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Mardok45
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | drizek wrote: | | lol@sandyvaginas |
Girls from the desert? |
Girls from a terrible beach? |
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The Earth
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| dreadlorde wrote: | | Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches. |
That obviously has never crossed the minds of 219 house democrats. The only bipartisan part of this bill was the opposition to it.
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dreadlorde
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | That obviously has never crossed the minds of 219 house democrats. The only bipartisan part of this bill was the opposition to it. |
Nothing seems to pass through the crevasses of a democrats mind. They're too filled with unicorns, rainbows and butterflies.
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Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
Yeah, that'll work. Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches. |
surely you put the health of the people over money? |
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dreadlorde
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | surely you put the health of the people over money? |
If they can pay for their health care. I have fucking health care. The gov't steals enough of my money as it is.
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Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
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The Earth
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
Yeah, that'll work. Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches. |
surely you put the health of the people over money? |
Cokey, people can get health care already. This bill is going to flat out bankrupt the country, increase unemployment, and reduce liberty.
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drizek
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
Yeah, that'll work. Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches. |
surely you put the health of the people over money? |
Cokey, people can get health care already. This bill is going to flat out bankrupt the country, increase unemployment, and reduce liberty. |
shit guys, LBRT just tanked on stocks.google.com.
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
Yeah, that'll work. Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches. |
surely you put the health of the people over money? |
Cokey, people can get health care already. This bill is going to flat out bankrupt the country, increase unemployment, and reduce liberty. |
Ok, you're going to have to bear with my lack of knowledge for a moment but after an initial outlay the system should cost less (anything would cost less than the current system), help employment (no need to buy insurance for employees = more money/higher employment and increase liberty because health will be one more thing you won't have to worry about. Taxing money off people for health is no different from doing it for the roads |
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dreadlorde
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| drizek wrote: |
shit guys, LBRT just tanked on stocks.google.com. |
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:LBRT
| cokehabit wrote: | | Ok, you're going to have to bear with my lack of knowledge for a moment but after an initial outlay the system should cost less (anything would cost less than the current system), help employment (no need to buy insurance for employees = more money/higher employment and increase liberty because health will be one more thing you won't have to worry about. Taxing money off people for health is no different from doing it for the roads |
How many times do you have to be told, involuntary taxes are theft.
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Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
Last edited by dreadlorde on Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | surely you put the health of the people over money? |
If they can pay for their health care. I have fucking health care. The gov't steals enough of my money as it is. |
"me" "me" "me". What about the people who can't? What about the 50% of bankrupts that are because of health bills.
Think of all that extra cash in the economy if people aren't going to be bankrupt |
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drizek
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| dreadlorde wrote: | | How many times do you have to be told, involuntary taxes are theft. |
I don't know, but keep saying it. It gets funnier every time.
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dreadlorde
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | "me" "me" "me". What about the people who can't? What about the 50% of bankrupts that are because of health bills.
Think of all that extra cash in the economy if people aren't going to be bankrupt |
Fiat money is hardly `cash.'
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Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
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The Earth
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Joined: 22 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | Chopinzee wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | from the amout paid by European socialised medicine and the amount the US pays it would surely pay for itself within 5 years |
Yeah, that'll work. Have you not seen this? The U.S. is in no position to give out free lunches. |
surely you put the health of the people over money? |
Cokey, people can get health care already. This bill is going to flat out bankrupt the country, increase unemployment, and reduce liberty. |
Ok, you're going to have to bear with my lack of knowledge for a moment but after an initial outlay the system should cost less (anything would cost less than the current system), help employment (no need to buy insurance for employees = more money/higher employment and increase liberty because health will be one more thing you won't have to worry about. Taxing money off people for health is no different from doing it for the roads |
I don't think you understand what this bill does for the costs of employers (not a shock, most people don't).
Read this.
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drizek
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | "me" "me" "me". What about the people who can't? What about the 50% of bankrupts that are because of health bills.
Think of all that extra cash in the economy if people aren't going to be bankrupt |
Fiat money is hardly `cash.' |
Ya, but Fiat was the only one that would buy Chrysler.
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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imitation lobster meat? What the fuck is that? Vomit!
| dreadlorde wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | Ok, you're going to have to bear with my lack of knowledge for a moment but after an initial outlay the system should cost less (anything would cost less than the current system), help employment (no need to buy insurance for employees = more money/higher employment and increase liberty because health will be one more thing you won't have to worry about. Taxing money off people for health is no different from doing it for the roads |
How many times do you have to be told, involuntary taxes are theft. |
all taxes are involuntary and if you believe they are theft then you're living on the wrong planet because taxes are a fact of life on the planet earth |
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