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DaggyStyle
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Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: os virtualization software, which one? |
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hello.
I need to install xp my linux server for the wife.
what is important for me is performance of the virtual os rather other "facny" features like composition.
I'm looking on software reveals 3 candidates:
app-emulation/qemu-kvm, wmware and vitrualbox.
afai understand, vmware is the fastest of all, question is which one? I see app-emulation/vmware-player, app-emulation/vmware-server and app-emulation/vmware-workstation.
afaik, the last one is trial based so I don't think I'll get it.
in vbox, it is the same, there are app-emulation/virtualbox-ose and app-emulation/virtualbox-bin
question is, which one to take?
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Ron Olsen
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:28 am Post subject: |
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I've tried both VirtualBox and VMware, and VMware is far superior.
VMware virtual machines can access the DVD drive, sound card, printer, and other devices on my host machine. The virtual machine has an IP address on my local network, and servers on the virtual machine that have web interfaces can be accessed by a browser running on my Gentoo host.
I'm running VMware 7 on my Gentoo x86 system. There is no ebuild for it, but you can install it on Gentoo by following the instructions here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-799551.html
The version of vmplayer that comes with VMware 7 lets you install virtual machines without requiring a license.
Way cool tool! 
I strongly suggest using VMware 7, do a manual install, and skip the Gentoo ebuild for VMware 6.5.3 |
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DaggyStyle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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thanks, I'm looking for an ebuild still which package should I install?
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ewaller
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just a counterpoint,
I like Virtualbox. It is simple. It is monolithic. The binary version does everything Ron said -- including access to USB devices.
If you install the client integration tools, keyboard and mouse sharing is seemless (no capture of mouse), Full screen works well, auto re-size of client desktop to host window size is automatic. Clipboard operations of client and host are integrated (copy from kde window, paste to XP window)
There is an ability to make client windows appear directly on the host desktop [Okay, this does work well at all, but it is a cool idea]
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DaggyStyle
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Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ewaller wrote: | Just a counterpoint,
I like Virtualbox. It is simple. It is monolithic. The binary version does everything Ron said -- including access to USB devices.
If you install the client integration tools, keyboard and mouse sharing is seemless (no capture of mouse), Full screen works well, auto re-size of client desktop to host window size is automatic. Clipboard operations of client and host are integrated (copy from kde window, paste to XP window)
There is an ability to make client windows appear directly on the host desktop [Okay, this does work well at all, but it is a cool idea] |
afaik, vbox is less performance wise then vmware...what's the catch? also what is the diff between the two packages I've labeled in the start of the thread?
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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former - Albert Einstein
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Ron Olsen
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ewaller wrote: | Just a counterpoint,
I like Virtualbox. It is simple. It is monolithic. The binary version does everything Ron said -- including access to USB devices.
If you install the client integration tools, keyboard and mouse sharing is seemless (no capture of mouse), Full screen works well, auto re-size of client desktop to host window size is automatic. Clipboard operations of client and host are integrated (copy from kde window, paste to XP window)
There is an ability to make client windows appear directly on the host desktop [Okay, this does work well at all, but it is a cool idea] |
One problem with Virtualbox: you can't access the optical drive (/dev/sr0) on the host from the virtual machine if you have an audio CD in the optical drive. This is a show-stopper for those VMs that need this. Bug has been filed with the Virtualbox folks by a user who ran into this problem: http://vortexbox.org/forum/general/vortexbox-in-virtualbox-ripping-not-supported/ |
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DaggyStyle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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ron,
which packages should I install?
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Ron Olsen
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| DaggyStyle wrote: | ron,
which packages should I install? |
I downloaded VMware Workstation 7.0.1 with VMware Tools from here:
http://downloads.vmware.com/d/details/wkst_701_lx/ZGolYmRqQCViZGR0Kg==
You'll have to jump through some hoops, fill out some forms to get to the point where you can actually do the download.
You won't be able to run VMware Workstation without a license, but you will be able to run VMplayer (which is part of the VMware Workstation package) without a license. VMplayer will let you create Virtual Machines from an install CD or an iso image, so I don't know what you'd need VMware Workstation for. Maybe you could just download VMplayer, but I didn't do that.
To get the install to work on Gentoo, you'll have to follow the instructions here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-799551.html
You'll then need to run service vmware start as root to start the daemons that need to run. Then you can run vmplayer as a non-root user and set up your Virtual Machines.
I think doing a manual install of 7.0.1 is preferable to installing the 6.5.3 ebuild of vmware-workstation that's in Gentoo Portage. Emerging vmware-workstation-6.5.3 is a pain, since you have to go to the VMware website to download the code anyway. Might as well get the 7.0.1 version and use that. |
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haarp
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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I prefer VirtualBox. I've used VMware for a long time, but found it becoming too corporate-y, bloated and slow. It often crashed, resulted in kernel panics and the GUI in the new server-version sucks (Web UI only!)
VirtualBox was a savior. Very fast (it uses the virtualization features of modern CPUs), very easy and it simply WORKS! Oh, and it's completely Open Source (Except for the bin-version with enhanced USB support) |
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jcTux
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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Location: Tours, France
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ron Olsen wrote: | | DaggyStyle wrote: | ron,
which packages should I install? |
I downloaded VMware Workstation 7.0.1 with VMware Tools from here:
http://downloads.vmware.com/d/details/wkst_701_lx/ZGolYmRqQCViZGR0Kg==
You'll have to jump through some hoops, fill out some forms to get to the point where you can actually do the download.
You won't be able to run VMware Workstation without a license, but you will be able to run VMplayer (which is part of the VMware Workstation package) without a license. VMplayer will let you create Virtual Machines from an install CD or an iso image, so I don't know what you'd need VMware Workstation for. Maybe you could just download VMplayer, but I didn't do that.
To get the install to work on Gentoo, you'll have to follow the instructions here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-799551.html
You'll then need to run service vmware start as root to start the daemons that need to run. Then you can run vmplayer as a non-root user and set up your Virtual Machines.
I think doing a manual install of 7.0.1 is preferable to installing the 6.5.3 ebuild of vmware-workstation that's in Gentoo Portage. Emerging vmware-workstation-6.5.3 is a pain, since you have to go to the VMware website to download the code anyway. Might as well get the 7.0.1 version and use that. |
Why not vmware-player ? It is free, it has all basic stuffs that vmware-workstation has. I use it for a long time, and I'm very happy. I tried also virtualbox, I noticed a big difference of performances between both.
I recommend vmware-server 3.0.1 |
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jcTux
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| haarp wrote: | I prefer VirtualBox. I've used VMware for a long time, but found it becoming too corporate-y, bloated and slow. It often crashed, resulted in kernel panics and the GUI in the new server-version sucks (Web UI only!)
VirtualBox was a savior. Very fast (it uses the virtualization features of modern CPUs), very easy and it simply WORKS! Oh, and it's completely Open Source (Except for the bin-version with enhanced USB support) |
Try out the latest version of vmware-player, you'll see some big improvements. No more web gui. |
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ewaller
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Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="jcTux"] | haarp wrote: | | Try out the latest version of vmware-player, you'll see some big improvements. No more web gui. |
Fair enough. This thread has piqued my interest and I'll give it a try. I use visualization of Windows for only two things. (1). I use it as a petri dish to incubate the scumware I find on friends and family's Windows machines to see what they do, and (2) my daughter is a gymnast whose gym hosts meets periodically. We run some vertical market software written in Borland C++ on XP. That software is interfaced through USB to a customer scorepad/score display system. It runs well in Virtualbox. Our next meet is in a couple weeks. I'll set up a VMware install to see if it works with the scoring equipment. I will, however, be running that meet with the tried and true Virtualbox. If all goes well, maybe the next meet will be on VMware.
In an ideal world I'll rewrite the whole thing in C++ / Django / Apache. Let the judges interface through a browser interface and spectstors watch scores on thier smart phones / laptops -- In my copious spare time.
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ewaller
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Wow.
Loaded VMplayer and installed XP from scratch. What a difference from previous VMware incarnations.
I may be a convert. I am experiencing a little trouble with client sound using pulseaudio on the host. I have not yet even begun to explore the issues.
Other than that, two thumbs up -- Desktop integration, USB -- all good.
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jcTux
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ewaller wrote: | I am experiencing a little trouble with client sound using pulseaudio on the host. I have not yet even begun to explore the issues.
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I got this problem too. From what I observed, if when the guest OS is booting and there is sound playing on the host, pulseaudio produces an unpleasant sound. But if, there is no sound playing on the host at the guest boot, everything goes right, even if there is sounds playing on the both after. |
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Kingoftherings
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron Olsen wrote: |
The version of vmplayer that comes with VMware 7 lets you install virtual machines without requiring a license.
Way cool tool!
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VMWare Player 3 is the player that can install VMs without a license. Are there any other features of VMWare 7 that can be used without a license? If not, then it'd be better to just install the player instead of the full thing right? |
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Ron Olsen
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Kingoftherings wrote: | | Ron Olsen wrote: |
The version of vmplayer that comes with VMware 7 lets you install virtual machines without requiring a license.
Way cool tool!
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VMWare Player 3 is the player that can install VMs without a license. Are there any other features of VMWare 7 that can be used without a license? If not, then it'd be better to just install the player instead of the full thing right? |
In retrospect, just installing VMWare Player 3 is probably the best way to go. I haven't used any other part of the VMWare 7 package.
I now have four virtual machines running on VMWare Player 3: Fedora 12, Kubuntu 9.10, Mint 8, and VortexBox 1.2.
It's a great way to check out new distros. May try Windows XP next... |
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ewaller
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| myself wrote: | Wow.
I am experiencing a little trouble with client sound using pulseaudio on the host. |
My default alsa device configuration for pulseaudio was hosed. I RTFM and it works great.
I think I'm a convert to vmplayer. I've one more issue with ethernet bridging to my host wireless. I'll probably start another thread for this.
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jcTux
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ewaller wrote: | | I've one more issue with ethernet bridging to my host wireless. I'll probably start another thread for this. |
I did not try bridge network. The NAT option is enough for my personal use. |
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Princess Nell
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:51 am Post subject: |
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I used to use vmware workstation/player, but then switched to virtualbox-bin because every other kernel rev
bump broke vmware-modules compilation. vbox works well enough, but the whole usb support situation is
ridiculous, even in the -bin version - if it's not plug&play, it's not acceptable. That's where VMware gets it right,
even with the player.
Just this weekend, I started playing with kvm on Gentoo. My impression is that it may be a workable solution for
a headless server, but not for e.g. putting Windoze capability on the Linux desktop (engineers love Excel, and
OO doesn't quite cut it ...). Usb support situation is worse than in vbox.
Why the emphasis on usb support? At $place-of-ork, we're stuck with RHEL3 on the desktop, for another while at
least, and USB flash drives do not automount, so all I can tell our users is to use them under vmware.
Xen works very well for headless servers, but I haven't had a chance to try it with a desktop OS. |
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Weird how VirtualBox did Mac OS X Tiger way faster than VMware. |
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boerKrelis
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Since no one mentioned KVM is nice, here goes:
KVM is nice, too. It's supported in the vanilla kernels - no out-of-tree modules to compile. VMWare can be hell at that.
But with KVM you have to do some work to set it up. I couldn't get libvirt to work well, so I ended up setting up bridged networking +tun/tap myself, and I run 'kvm' from a shell. If you set up a script and a desktop shortcut this will be painless for your wife. |
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd like to point out that KVM seems to be the only one that plays nicely with GRSecurity (hardened-sources). |
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darklegion
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| boerKrelis wrote: | Since no one mentioned KVM is nice, here goes:
KVM is nice, too. It's supported in the vanilla kernels - no out-of-tree modules to compile. VMWare can be hell at that.
But with KVM you have to do some work to set it up. I couldn't get libvirt to work well, so I ended up setting up bridged networking +tun/tap myself, and I run 'kvm' from a shell. If you set up a script and a desktop shortcut this will be painless for your wife. |
Last time I checked, KVM required full hardware virtualization.Not all CPUs support this (especially older ones) |
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boerKrelis
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| Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| It does need hardware support, yes. Look for the svm (AMD) or vmx (Intel) flags in /proc/cpuinfo. |
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