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dberkholz
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Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1008
Location: Rochester, MN, USA
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 Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: [NEWS] First sets of weekly stage3s and minimal CDs released |
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This forums thread is for discussion of the www.gentoo.org posting, "First sets of weekly stage3 tarballs and minimal CDs released." Post your comments and suggestions here.
| Quote: | The time has come! Our release engineers have been refining their automated builds of the minimal CD and stage3 tarballs, and the first builds are uploaded to our mirrors. Select your favorite mirror and navigate to the /experimental/ directory. Under the x86, amd64, ia64, alpha, and sparc64 architectures, the autobuilds directory contains stages. So far, minimal CD isos are only available for x86 and amd64.
We're still working to add automated builds for ppc, ppc64 and hppa as well as CD images for architectures lacking them. We built the stage3 tarballs from the latest stable packages. Fresh builds will show up every week, although sometimes we might skip a week if build problems crop up.
Because these builds are automated, they have not been rigorously tested as the old releases. Occasionally, you might run into problems. If that happens, just try a file from a different week.
Please try out these new builds and leave your feedback on the forums. As always, please report any bugs on Bugzilla.
Happy holidays! |
Stuck by NeddySeagoon 20 Dec
Unstuck 7 Jan 2010. --timeBandit
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jackbyte
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Location: Ags, Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Thanks |
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Thanks, this is good decision to go for weekly builds.. 
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kev009
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Tempe, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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What do you think about something like a "blessed" build every two months or so? This build would be frozen for a week or two so it can be tested and bugs squashed. Builds will NEVER be held up, but anything wrong would be added to the release notes.
Seems like the best of all worlds to me.
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tarpman
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Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 1083
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| kev009 wrote: | | This build would be frozen for a week or two so it can be tested and bugs squashed. |
Why bother? Just fix bugs in the stable tree, and wait for the next autobuild to roll around.
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Guayasil
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| I agree that some stabilization period (the same as for new ebuilds) would be fine. IMHO monthly releases would be OK. The idea of weekly releases -- all containing more or less critical bugs (I'm afraid we won't be able to avoid it) -- it's IMHO not a good idea -- lots of trash instead of a few pearls... |
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chithanh
Developer
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Re: [NEWS] First sets of weekly stage3s and minimal CDs rele |
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| dberkholz wrote: |
| Quote: | | We built the stage3 tarballs from the latest stable packages. |
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This is unfortunately not true for the livecd, which still uses some ancient version of ISOLINUX. If you used the latest version 3.72 that has the nice feature of being able to boot the .iso from usb (without having to follow lengthy howtos) that would be great. |
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Moonboots
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Let's not shoot it down before it even gets off the ground 
| Quote: | | Occasionally, you might run into problems. |
Like ~arch, not guaranteed to 100% stable. But it's definitely something positive for the Gentoo distribution. |
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daniel.h
n00b
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Where are the minimal CDs? Are they uploaded yet?
Edit: Alright, just the newest auto build doesn't have a minimal CD. Problem solved |
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agaffney
Developer
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 104
Location: St. Charles, MO
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: Re: [NEWS] First sets of weekly stage3s and minimal CDs rele |
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| chithanh wrote: | | This is unfortunately not true for the livecd, which still uses some ancient version of ISOLINUX. If you used the latest version 3.72 that has the nice feature of being able to boot the .iso from usb (without having to follow lengthy howtos) that would be great. |
Actually, it is true of the CDs. All the packages contained on the CD are the latest stable in the tree at the time of building. However, catalyst used a pre-built ISOLINUX image to make the CD bootable. That pre-built version just happens to be 3.09 because nobody has requested an updated version. |
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xahodo
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Gouda, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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How about a vote system, where people can vote on the quality of a build. The more votes a build gets, the more stable it will be rated and the longer it will stick around. People should also be able to stick comments to builds like: "wireless driver X is bugged" or "doesn't boot on motherboard Y". Imho this should take a form of a simple listing, not a complete bug-tracker, so people can be or make others aware of any issues with the build without too much hassle. This provides feedback from the community to the community.
Once a week statistics could be generated to see how popular each build is, if a build is popular enough a dev could take action to move the build in question build from experimental to stable (depending on where it is located). This could of course also be done automatically, but personally I believe a human touch is needed in decisions like these.
There are quite some possibilities with this, but the bottom line is that there is a need to see which build is perceived to be more stable by the community, while also providing a way to inform each other about caveats in a build. |
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zyko
l33t
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 617
Location: Munich, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Congratulations on the first release!
I've been testing the Live-CD a litte and I love it. It's a step into the right direction! |
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agaffney
Developer
Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 104
Location: St. Charles, MO
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| xahodo wrote: | | How about a vote system, where people can vote on the quality of a build. |
Are you going to implement this for us? The whole purpose of doing the automated weekly builds was to reduce the workload on releng  |
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aidanjt
Veteran
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1096
Location: Rep. of Ireland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Excellent, this is good news. So now the question is what will releng focus on now?.. A rebirth of GRP perhaps?
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NathanZachary
Moderator
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2281
Location: /home/zach
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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This is fantastic news! A huge thanks to all the members of the releng team!
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VinzC
Advocate
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 4344
Location: Spa (Belgium)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| xahodo wrote: | How about a vote system, where people can vote on the quality of a build.
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| Roger Waters in Amused to Death wrote: | »Give anyone's species too much rope
»And they'll f*** it up!... |
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Januszzz
Guru
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 349
Location: Opole, Poland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, this is great news is somebody going to spread this outside Gentoo world, ie. lxer.com, distrowatch and others? |
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flatelin
n00b
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Will the install documentation be updated to explain the use of these new minimal weekly builds? |
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valkyrite
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 241
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Well, now at least we can say that we have up-to-date (microsecond) install media available. 
What would be really awesome is if we have up-to-date packages available through portage.
Cheers to the release engineering team. |
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yngwin
Developer
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4217
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| flatelin wrote: | | Will the install documentation be updated to explain the use of these new minimal weekly builds? |
Yes, but we'd like to see some testing and feedback on this new method first. But it should end up as the newly recommended way of installing Gentoo.
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Captain Newbie
Apprentice
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 174
Location: Socal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Moonboots wrote: | Let's not shoot it down before it even gets off the ground
| Quote: | | Occasionally, you might run into problems. |
Like ~arch, not guaranteed to 100% stable. But it's definitely something positive for the Gentoo distribution. |
Yup, it's better than no new stages at all.
Thanks releng.
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Januszzz
Guru
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 349
Location: Opole, Poland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Occasionally, you might run into problems. If that happens, just try a file from a different week. |
Well, so if problem arise am I supposed to change the whole installation, even if a problem arises during next week or two and I've did LOTS of work on the system? During first week I usually install 99% of software I need and its usually about twenty somewhat complicated services...
I'm using Gentoo on production and would really appreciate if new stages would be well tested... I know, I'll try new stage, why not, but I would like to be sure that if something fails its my fault, not stage. If I'm not sure, I'll have to put up with Gentoo to sleep better (now I'm sleeping fine).
Anyway, I'm happy to see a progress and feel better about the future. |
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nightmorph
Developer
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 1382
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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If a problem arises during installation (and it's not PEBKAC or similar), it usually means that the stage itself is bad, and you won't be able to install it at all. It's not likely that you'll have to install a system, get your desktop/server up and running, and then have to reinstall.
If you're running Gentoo in a production environment, then rule #1 usually something like "Don't be the first to try something new out" anyway, so . . . let other users soak up the issues before you jump in.
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ape
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Why bother? Just fix bugs in the stable tree, and wait for the next autobuild to roll around. |
Look at it from an installer point of view. I've got the choice of stage3 tarballs from 2001 or a weekly build.
The old build causes me problems -- so which week do I choose? I'll try the latest, but I have no idea whether it has critical bugs, and which ones they could be. If I have problems, I'll roll back, then start filing bug reports and it'll turn into a huge mess for everyone involved. If I wait for the next autobuild, what new problems may arise?
If there were some 'process' for clearly mapping bugs reported to the weekly build, I could search that and make an informed choice --- either something in bugzilla other than a full text search, or some wiki place that would get updated.
Otherwise, I foresee the Debian nightmare --- stable is useless because it's several years old, and you're constantly chasing whatever is in testing. You always need a gradation between 'in total flux' and 'rock-stable'.
If it's more complicated than that, it won't be terribly useful -- the point of making install cd's is to stop all the duplication of work in terms of rolling your own because of improvements.
In short, there needs to be an ~arch version, instead of just having arch and -arch.
Maybe another option is to select out every n months a weekly build with relatively few bugs reported against it, maybe with a little extra work in there for human patched repairs. It won't require all the work of a major release, it can be understood it's not perfect, but you have better odds than an automated weekly build, with yet a fairly up-to-date tarball. |
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Koda
n00b
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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umh, i just didn't understand the news
the new method implies that in the autobuild stage there'll be newer version of programs, so practically including the portage files?
or did i get it wrong?
Koda |
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muaddib
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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I don't think a "stabilization period" is necessary.
Including bug fixes in the stable tree (which will get incorporated in the weekly builds) is just fine IMHO. |
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