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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Purchase advice for Sun computers Reply with quote

Ok, first off, I'm unsure if this should go here or in OTW, so if it gets moved, no worries.

I'm about to receive a moderate settlement from a lawsuit, and I wish to invest about $1000 USD into a sparc based server. I'd like at least a quad core capable unit, and avadiabl;e memory is more important to me than processor speed. I want hardware SCSI raid, bnut have a x86 solution for that i can continue to use. I do want an efficent unit. And of course it must be abl;e to run gentoo.

this would be a combo mail, web and file server. it may also eventually serve up to 1000 thin clients

Rack mount is perfered, and used is perfectly fine as long as it is in good condition.

Reccomendations?

NQS
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alex.blackbit
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1k$ is not much for a sparc server. why do you want one?
the t1000 is the smallest to my knowledge, and it is too expensive for you.
so a new machine does not seem to be an option.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean why vs a x86? cause i am learning to hate x86.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170273547213 and http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200266749280 both look like they could be good choices.

t1000 would be nice (a t2000 more so), but i don't need state of the art brand new equipment

NQS
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alex.blackbit
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Purchase advice for Sun computers Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
I'd like at least a quad core capable unit

multi-core processors are a state-of-the-art technique that is not available on old servers.
or did you mean multi-processor?
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: Purchase advice for Sun computers Reply with quote

alex.blackbit wrote:
NotQuiteSane wrote:
I'd like at least a quad core capable unit

multi-core processors are a state-of-the-art technique that is not available on old servers.
or did you mean multi-processor?


Multi processor

I shold have said a quad chip unit

although a quad core, quad chip unit would be nice.

NQS
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armin76
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/eolSystemList

Have a look at entry-level servers and midrange. But lookout, because some of them are x86.

By the specs you're asking(quad processor), not looking at the prices, from old to new(EOL date, therefore, newer = higher price + higher speed) i'd say:
- Enterprise 450 (4x480MHz U-II Max.)
- Fire 420R(4x450MHz U-II Max.)
- Enterprise 4500(14x464MHz U-II Max.)
- Fire V880(8x1200MHz U-III Max.)
- Fire V440(4x1593MHz U-IIIi Max.)

Obviously you need to find one which matches your 4proc specs, but those are capable of having them.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not go x64?

Jeez.. and the price of SCSI drives vs. SATA drives anyway.. and the upkeep.. You might as well just build a server from scratch.

What's so important that you *NEED* a Sparc-based server anyway? The latest C2D's can smear even an older Quad-Proc system.

P.S. That's too damn much for an out-of-date server anyway. Sheesh, I picked up my Quad P4 2.0GHz Xeon (HP Proliant DL580 G2) for $150. As for the tower, that's not a bad price (if it would power on).
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mattst88
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before purchasing a Quad Processor SPARC box, you should first check the heat output (in BTUs) and power consumption. Most are better purchased as electric heaters than servers.

If you're interested in Alternative Architectures, I'd recommend researching Alpha and PA-RISC systems.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armin76 wrote:
http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/eolSystemList

Have a look at entry-level servers and midrange. But lookout, because some of them are x86.

By the specs you're asking(quad processor), not looking at the prices, from old to new(EOL date, therefore, newer = higher price + higher speed) i'd say:
- Enterprise 450 (4x480MHz U-II Max.)
- Fire 420R(4x450MHz U-II Max.)
- Enterprise 4500(14x464MHz U-II Max.)
- Fire V880(8x1200MHz U-III Max.)
- Fire V440(4x1593MHz U-IIIi Max.)

Obviously you need to find one which matches your 4proc specs, but those are capable of having them.


I've pretty much decided on this

Just waiting on the money for it. i'm settling out of court, but we're in the off/counter offer stage.

NQS
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think you're crazy if you're just getting 1 server.

Why not wait and get 2 for redundancy (especially if you're going to be running 1000+ thin clients on it). That way if it goes down, you're not completely screwed.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simba7 wrote:
I still think you're crazy if you're just getting 1 server.

Why not wait and get 2 for redundancy (especially if you're going to be running 1000+ thin clients on it). That way if it goes down, you're not completely screwed.


Because my budget is only $1000 for the server, although if i happened to come across an unpopulated FC-SATA array I might be tempted to spend another $500 on it.

I'm not going to be running that many thin clients to start, i'm working into running that many eventually, as beowolf nodes.

of course i could always do like my brother thinks i should and just buy a Z-series instead, but he's a Power fanboy

NQS
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alex.blackbit
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

z-series for 1k$?
you need more per month to pay the license fees to ibm.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Lord man!

4680 BTU/hr heat output
1370 W power usage


http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/E4500/spec

I hope you are factoring in the costs of paying for a huge increase in electricity (server + AC to counter the 4680 BTU/hr).

You really ought to get a more modern system with (1) newer generation processors, (2) much less power usage, and (3) much much much (I can't stress this enough) less heat output.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex.blackbit wrote:
z-series for 1k$?
you need more per month to pay the license fees to ibm.


I wish, i'd resell it. i couldn't find a z series for under 30K

NQS
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

|mattst88| wrote:
Good Lord man!

4680 BTU/hr heat output
1370 W power usage


http://sunsolve.sun.com/handbook_pub/validateUser.do?target=Systems/E4500/spec

I hope you are factoring in the costs of paying for a huge increase in electricity (server + AC to counter the 4680 BTU/hr).


first off I pay a flat fee for rent + utilities, and my landlord is already aware of the power consumption, this will actually decrease consumption, compared to the 2 dozen (not all are on 24/7) 450W x86 boxes i currently use.

using 1 watt = 3.412141633 BTU/Hr, 24 450W x86 boxes produce 36 851.1296 BTU's

on the flip side, 1000 4 watt sunray 2 produce 13 648.5665 + 4680 = 18 328.5665, or roughly half the heat output.

using the data here we see that 24 2ghz computer have 96 Gflops, where as 14 450 + 1000 or (2 * .4 * 14) + (.333 * 1000 * 2) = 677.2 gives 18 times the efficency

Quote:
You really ought to get a more modern system with (1) newer generation processors, (2) much less power usage, and (3) much much much (I can't stress this enough) less heat output.


which is more 100 $ 5 or $100?

anyhow i gotta type up a paper, so i'll get back to this later

NQS
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and you think an old Sun system can do 96Gflops? You're crazy..

Not to mention, there's a *HUGE* difference between a P4 and a C2D or a C2Q.

If you want the Tflops in a small package, just invest in a couple of PS3's. http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=220
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane,

Excellent. I'm very glad you have in fact considered these points. :)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simba7 wrote:
...and you think an old Sun system can do 96Gflops? You're crazy..

Not to mention, there's a *HUGE* difference between a P4 and a C2D or a C2Q.

If you want the Tflops in a small package, just invest in a couple of PS3's. http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=220


a beuwoulf cluster using a sparc system for the head and 1K sun ray 2 clients can /theoretically/ reach 96 GFlops. thats 1014 chips, not "an old sun"

and thwe ps3's don't have sparc, and i want sparc

nqs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
a beuwoulf cluster using a sparc system for the head and 1K sun ray 2 clients can /theoretically/ reach 96 GFlops. thats 1014 chips, not "an old sun"

and thwe ps3's don't have sparc, and i want sparc

nqs

Um.. did I just mention Tflops, not Gflops? Just 1 PS3 can do around 2 TeraFlops.

Plus, why are you incredibly into the Sparc architecture?

..and as for the 1014 chips, my darn Video Card can go much higher than 96GFlops. Let's see.. .096TFlops or 2.4Tflops.. Hmm.. http://game.amd.com/us-en/unlock_radeonhd4870x2.aspx

Once Sparc can do over a TeraFlop on a single chip that doesn't cost over $10k, then they'll catch my attention once again.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simba7 wrote:
NotQuiteSane wrote:
a beuwoulf cluster using a sparc system for the head and 1K sun ray 2 clients can /theoretically/ reach 96 GFlops. thats 1014 chips, not "an old sun"

and thwe ps3's don't have sparc, and i want sparc

nqs

Um.. did I just mention Tflops, not Gflops? Just 1 PS3 can do around 2 TeraFlops.


yes. hey, how about we compare the ps3 to my commodore. bet it's more powerful what with it being newer.

and if you read what i said, i said the whole cluster has that potential, not (just) an old sun.

Quote:
Plus, why are you incredibly into the Sparc architecture?


because i like the orginating company from a technological point of view. there are several early Sun founders and lead employees that i idolize and influnced my choice to become an engineer.

Quote:
..and as for the 1014 chips, my darn Video Card can go much higher than 96GFlops. Let's see.. .096TFlops or 2.4Tflops.. Hmm.. http://game.amd.com/us-en/unlock_radeonhd4870x2.aspx


a better measurement was pointed out to me. bus speed * data bus * clock speed * cores * N chips.

so a 300 mhz ultra 2 would be 33 mhz * 567 bits *300 or 5 613 300

a 2ghz p4 would be 33 * 128bits * 2000 or 8 448 000 or about 33% faster. this isn't that big a gap over the ultra, when you consider if you compare machines of the same age, a 533 k62 with a bus speed of 33 and a 64 bit data bus was "top of the line", only scoring 1 125 696 using this formula, or one fith the speed of the ultra 2.

and just for refrence, a t2 chip gives us 1.4ghz w/ 8 cores, or 209 563 200 per chip installed. what is the bus speed and data bus on a ps3?

Quote:
Once Sparc can do over a TeraFlop on a single chip that doesn't cost over $10k, then they'll catch my attention once again.


well considering the ps3 can't do that... it uses 7 chips to reach it's 2 teraflops

and we won't bother discussing the t2 design is GPL'd

nqs
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