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Are the new graphical statistics on the GMN any good? |
Yeah, they rule! |
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63% |
[ 70 ] |
Doesn't really improve the newsletter, but doesn't hurt either |
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31% |
[ 35 ] |
They're really bad! |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
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Total Votes : 110 |
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KillerX Retired Dev
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 12 Location: India
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: [NEWS] February GMN |
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This forums thread is for discussion of the February issue of the Gentoo Monthly Newsletter. We hope you enjoyed reading it!
If you liked a certain article or felt that the GMN was published with something that we could do without, let us know. You can also put your comments and suggestions on how you think the next GMN should be.
There's also a poll on whether the new graphical stats are any good
Cheers,
Anant |
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NathanZachary Moderator
Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 2605
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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The graphical statistics are nice as they do organise the information in a readily observable manner. However, I think that the pie charts could use a little more contrast in the colour scheme. I understand that the scheme strictly follows that of the Gentoo site, and the GMN, but I believe that having a few stark colour contrasts might make the graphs easier to read. In either regard, the graphics are a nice, yet subtle, addition to the newsletter. _________________ “Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio--- |
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rgk Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 140 Location: ny
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: |
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I am glad to see that the GMN is actually manageable to release on on time.
The new graphical stats are awesome too
thanks for a great GMN _________________ MadGizmo.com is awesome. |
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Icer Guru
Joined: 26 Aug 2003 Posts: 395 Location: @home
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
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++
Looks gr8t! Keep up the good work. _________________ Everything can be done. There's just a longer delivery time for impossible projects. |
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arnvidr l33t
Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 629 Location: Oslo, Norway
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I haven't received this....? I got the last issue, has something changed?
Reading it at www.gentoo.org, it looks good though!
Fixed the link, the forums get greedy with punctuation around URLs. -- desultory
edit: Got the e-mail now _________________
Last edited by arnvidr on Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Eckos Apprentice
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Love the issue. Keep up the good work. And don't take away the chart graphs or I'll do something *shakes fist* j/k. _________________ AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ | 2GB DDR2 533MHz RAM | GCC-4.3.2 | Gentoo x86_64 | KDE 4.1.2 |
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V-Li Retired Dev
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 613
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Eckos (only irrelavant parts stripped wrote: | I'll do something |
How about contributing to the GMN. |
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phajdan.jr Retired Dev
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 1777 Location: Poland
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Graphical stats about arches are really useful. It's just easier to compare visually than raw numbers. Pie charts - well, unless they would be category-divided, are not interesting for me. |
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gentoo-dev Apprentice
Joined: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 172
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Graphs look nice, but do not deliver as nice as plain text info. I liked the lists (make'em <ul> or <ol>) better than the table.
We used to have links to bugs.gentoo.org that gave the list of bugs, could we have them back please?
Nice to see the GMN published on time. Well done! |
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d2_racing Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 13047 Location: Ste-Foy,Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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rgk wrote: | The new graphical stats are awesome too |
Yeah, this is pretty impressive. |
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Thargor Apprentice
Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Posts: 239 Location: Bamberg/Germany
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to everyone who contributed in this GMN! Keep up the great work!
PS: I really like the graphics too _________________ Ideas are bulletproof |
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steveL Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 5153 Location: The Peanut Gallery
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Looks great, well done :-)
One thing I'd love to see is a "Top 10 breakages" as voted on by forum users; for example, expat would have been in the chart for quite a while. That'd be a really useful resource for people about to do a major upgrade (especially if each linked to a forum how-to on getting round it.)
We could easily tie scripts into it as well, which would be an effective way for us to keep our systems stable without requiring dev time (apart from the initial setup of the voting and an RSS feed.) _________________
creaker wrote: | systemd. It is a really ass pain |
update - "a most excellent portage wrapper"
#friendly-coders -- We're still here for you™ ;) |
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V-Li Retired Dev
Joined: 03 Jan 2006 Posts: 613
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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This would maybe better qualify in a sticky forums thread...but I consider the GMN not the right source for it. Go on and create it. |
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kamil1 n00b
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 17
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Page too wide |
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While the piecharts sure look fancy, they are too wide. As a result, the page with text is unreasonably stretched horizontally, making it uncomfortable to read.
Do you think you could make the charts a little narrower next time around? |
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equaeghe l33t
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 642
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: A note on so-called 'chart-junk' |
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Hi all,
Before I spotted this thread (my mistake), I sent a feedback e-mail to the GMN-editors.
I'm more-or-less reproducing this e-mail below.
The gist is that I argue against the graphical charts (at least for the data they are used for now):
they may look nice, but they are not effective in conveying content.
Even though they might look nice, pie-charts almost never are very efficient
conveying information; 3D-pie charts are even worse, as distortion is introduced
theat has absolutely no added information content. Usually, the information put
in pie-charts is much better presented in a table where a percentage is added.
So what I am suggesting is that the pie-charts (sorry) are removed, but that a
percentage column is added to the corresponding table.
The same remark holds for the bar-chart, but there a stable% per arch could be
added to the table.
Because the editors write
Quote: | Graphical bugzilla and package statistics is another feature we implemented,
don't forget to see the cool graphs and charts! |
I know that my remark will be somewhat unwelcome. In this regard, note that I'm
not just stating my personal opinion, but am repeating what the experts say
(see, e.g., Tufte's books http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/).
To convince yourself, put the table next to the pie/bar chart and try to get
some information out of them (what is the absolute/relative number of...): the
table will provide faster and accurate numbers, whereas the chart will require
one to work with estimates and do more work linking labels to numbers (pie
slices / lengths). One of the reasons is that tables present the (not really
very large amount of) numbers in a more structured way.
To look at it on the bright side: if the editors follow my suggestion, the GMN readers will
have better access to the numbers and at the same time the GMN editors will
probably have less work preparing the GMN.
Best regards,
Erik
P.S.: An instance where a graphical representation of data might be useful is
where a really large amount of data is presented in a relatively small space:
e.g., the evolution of the relative/absolute number of packages per arch could
be put in a plot containing daily data for multiple years. |
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nixnut Bodhisattva
Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 10974 Location: the dutch mountains
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: A note on so-called 'chart-junk' |
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equaeghe wrote: | Even though they might look nice, pie-charts almost never are very efficient
conveying information; 3D-pie charts are even worse, as distortion is introduced
theat has absolutely no added information content. Usually, the information put
in pie-charts is much better presented in a table where a percentage is added.
So what I am suggesting is that the pie-charts (sorry) are removed, but that a
percentage column is added to the corresponding table. |
I agree completely. Pie charts are only good for part-to-whole comparison and there is no excuse whatsoever for 3D pie charts.
Reading a book like "Show me the numbers" by Stephen Few should be mandatory for people that want to use graphs for visual presentation of numbers. "Visual Display of Quantitative Information" by Edward Tufte is another good book on the subject.
The bar chart Figure 6.1: Package distribution by keyword would be better sorted in descending order on the number of keyworded packages instead of alphabetic order of the arch names. And the contrast between the categories stable and testing is too low imho. _________________ Please add [solved] to the initial post's subject line if you feel your problem is resolved. Help answer the unanswered
talk is cheap. supply exceeds demand |
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steveL Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 5153 Location: The Peanut Gallery
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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V-Li wrote: | This would maybe better qualify in a sticky forums thread...but I consider the GMN not the right source for it. Go on and create it. :) |
Heh the only ones I can think of right now are expat and apache-2 which are pretty old. Trouble with a forum thread is that it's reliant on the OP to maintain it, and also I don't see how the voting mechanism could work. I'll have a look on IRC later tonight for recent breakages though. |
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Revoltz n00b
Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Posts: 1 Location: Brasil
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks great, well done >>>>>>>>>
101% Gentoo |
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Princess Nell l33t
Joined: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 916
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with kamil1. Text formatting is the browser's job, but the fancy imagery just messes it up.
I always find it strange to see people use full-screen browser windows anyway (are they used
to low-res screens, maybe?), it's a waste of screen real estate, especially if one needs to keep
an eye or two on other things. Can't stand sites that effectively force full-screen.
Other than that, it's great to see the newsletter back. |
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i92guboj Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 10315 Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nice job in general.
I can understand why some people complain about the contrast on the graphs, though. Site layout is important, but presenting the info in a way that is legible for everyone is the first thing. Nice things are ok, but it is far more important to communicate the contents in a way that most persons can read easily without having to capture the hex code for the colors
But in general I think that it's not bad at all, much less for a second GMN. |
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think4urs11 Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 6659 Location: above the cloud
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Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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nixnut wrote: | And the contrast between the categories stable and testing is too low imho. |
Just wanted to write the same, so ++
other than that some graphs over timeline would be more interesting to see, e.g. number of devs/packets/bugs
maybe even some fancy stacked ones like number of bugs in total as 100% and split the stack between New/Closed/Not fixed/Marked Duplicate/Reopened to find some trends
oh and normally such graphs show top-10, not top-9 _________________ Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself |
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NathanZachary Moderator
Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 2605
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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I think more important than the individual recommendations here is that people are reading the GMN and that it is a community issue. All of our recommendations regarding the pie charts and graphics rely on the prerequisite of having a community newsletter in the first place. The suggestions just affirm that people want to better the Gentoo world. _________________ “Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio--- |
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Kobboi l33t
Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 672 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: GMN graphs |
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What was used to generate the nice graphs in the GMN? |
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mark_alec Bodhisattva
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 6066 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Re: GMN graphs |
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Kobboi wrote: | What was used to generate the nice graphs in the GMN? | http://code.google.com/apis/chart/
Merged this post into the main February GMN one. _________________ www.gentoo.org.au || #gentoo-au |
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safekali n00b
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 2 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Indeed the GMN is better than ever ! |
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I'm just loving the overall layout of the GMN, the stats are wonderful, and so are the color theme they choose which is of course Gentoo's colors .
The information is well synthesized and structured, is easy readable and we don't get tired of reading.
So the for me the job is well done so far, lets just pray they keep on good vibes to do it right
month after month.
Best Regards
Safekali |
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