Dvorak Keyboard

osugi_sakae · n00b Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 25 Location: Columbus, OH

I have been debating switching to dvorak for a few months now - reducing the strain on hands / fingers is the big reason.

So looking around for a dvorak keyboard for my laptops, i found this:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/keyboards/5fff/

the TouchStream LP ZeroForce Keyboard. looks like a great keyboard, once you get used to it. But the price is a bit steep. Does anyone here have any experience with a `zero force' keyboard? Are they worth the money? How hard are they to get used to (over and above the dvorak fun)?

Osugi Sakae
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shimage · n00b Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 48

Schwin97 · n00b Joined: 25 Oct 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Frisco, TX

Easy to switch in w2k...

Control Panel -> Keyboard -> Input Locale and then add in the dvorak keyboard...

Pistos · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 5:16 pm Post subject:

I used QWERTY "all my life" (basically since 1983) until about 1996 or so (I forget the exact year), at which point I made a cold-turkey switch to Dvorak.

I haven't looked back.

I don't think it's _THE_ best keyboard layout that could be devised [for English-speaking programmers]. I think it is an excellent keyboard for typing conversational and literary English (e.g. essays, forum messages, IRC chat), but its layout does not take into account the frequency with which symbols are used in programming, and the frequency of common programming language keywords (e.g. for, while, if, else, ... etc.).

Having said that, I don't think it's worth the effort for anyone to make a new "English programmer's layout", because if it isn't easy to switch to that layout on "other" computers, then it would be too much bother. In contrast, Dvorak is available on Mac, *n*x and Windows.

To learn and practice Dvorak, I used the version of Ten Thumbs Typing Tutor that was available at that time. I got up to speed in Dvorak by the time the trial period for the software ran out.

On typing speed tests, I used to do about 100 WPM on QWERTY before the switch. Now, I do maybe 110 WPM or better on Dvorak (about 80 when "relaxing"). My QWERTY speed has dwindled to maybe 40 or 50 at best, and I have lost the ability to smoothly touch type on QWERTY. But if the keycaps are in a QWERTY layout (which they almost always are, of course), I can type decently while looking at the keyboard. Altogether, I can safely say I'm not completely lost on a QWERTY layout.

I think speed isn't so much the reason to switch as comfort is. On QWERTY, you are absosmurfly going WILD across all three letter rows at any decent typing speed. Dvorak, by contrast, really does put about 65% of your typing on the home row, and a good chunk of the remaining typing on the upper row, relegating a small amount only to the low row. Try cutting and pasting (or typing) some text into this comparison applet.

As for application keymappings: I used emacs pre-Dvorak (though not vi). It _was_ a bit annoying at first to have to acclimatize my brain to some new finger locations, but these days, I don't even think about common stuff like C-x, C-s or C-w, C-y. They're no problem at all.

Even windows shortcut keys are a non issue (Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, Ctrl-Z, etc.). It just takes a bit of time.

To those wanting or trying to learn, I give the following pieces of advice:

- Plan to set aside a portion of your life (two weeks at least) where you can safely go cold turkey, and then do it. If you switch back and forth day to day (e.g. use dvorak at home, but QWERTY at school or work) it will only impede your progress with Dvorak, and increase your frustration. You'll need some time to do this, because you will be slow at first (naturally), so switching when you have a 10-page essay due next week is probably not a good idea.

- For the first few days, practice a lot. When I learned, I probably did maybe an hour's practice the very first day, and at least 20 minutes each day after that. After maybe a week, you can go maybe 10 minutes a day. By "practice", I mean sitting down at your computer in your typing tutor program, and using it (for exercises, learning the layout, playing typing games, etc.). You should be able to have 5-10 wpm on the first day, and increase steadily by another 5-10 wpm each day. You can get to a decent (though still slow) speed after probably only a week of this.

- Touch type. For one, nearly all keyboards you lay your hands on are going to have QWERTY keycaps. But, more importantly, you WILL type faster by touch-typing. It's okay to have a printed-out keyboard layout with you, but I recommend against using stickers on your keycaps, or rearranging them physically.

I personally wouldn't recommend switching to anyone but [fellow] computer geeks, and even for them, I think QWERTY is decent enough (until you get RMI, anyway.

). For most people that type 70 WPM or better, you won't see much of a speed improvement from the switch (at least, I didn't). It _is_ more comfortable, but if you're already comfortable using QWERTY, why bother changing? For me, the number one reason to switch was the "geek factor"/"just for the heck of it".

Heh...

Gandalf_Grey_ · Apprentice Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 151

I have been on Dvorak for about 3 days now.

If I am looking at my keyboard I get ~25 WPM and if I am attempting to touch type I get about 15.

I usually do a combination of touch and looking because I consistanty forget where G,C,D and F are
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masseya · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:13 pm Post subject:

Pistos - Thanks for that excellent first post! I'm very eager to try making the switch again. I think I'll probably have to wait for a good two week period though. ;-)

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Enigma-Redux · n00b Joined: 09 Dec 2002 Posts: 2 Location: Bethel, ME

I've had some time off.. so I made the switch about a month ago. I've already passed my QWERTY speed.. and still (slowly) gaining. You spend most of the time in the home row - which I enjoy a lot. Thats mostly out of lazyness, though I'm sure my wrists will thank me in due time.

The one thing I do not like, and have not goten use to, is that the key bindings in just about everything are wrong. They simply arn't designed for Dvorak. Thats a pain.

Defently recomending it though!
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paranode · l33t Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 679 Location: Texas

Sounds cool and all but it seems that if you have to use or administer other computers for work or something it would be a pain to switch yourself to Dvorak and then have to go back to qwerty every time you touched another computer. And you know how slow we are to change things like this...
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Pistos · Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:00 pm Post subject:

Agreed that the Windows keys (Ctrl z x c and v) were selected because they were intended to be used easily by the left hand while the mouse was selecting things... and so on and so forth with vi, etc.

But I really don't feel it's that big of a deal. You get used to Ctrl X and Ctrl V in dvorak, and I use Ctrl-Ins, Shift-Del and Shift-Ins once in a while, too.

As for administering computers: If you're Administrator, then you should setup having Dvorak "ready-to-go", such that you just press Alt-Left-Shift to switch layouts. I already have this setup for my home computer, my work computer, and a number of my friends' and family's machines. *n*x is not a big deal either, if you keep your keyboard map file in easy reach (on the web, or on a disk), because it's a one-liner with xmodmap.

And Mac comes with Dvorak built in (woo hoo).

And just because you use Dvorak, doesn't mean you cannot type on qwerty at all. Like I said, I still do 40 to 50 WPM on QWERTY.

MrStaticVoid · Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:26 pm Post subject:

I just changed my keyboard layout by popping my keys out. This is really hard to get used to, but I am going to try to stick with it. I never typed correctly in QWERTY, so its nice that this teaches you. I changed my layout in /etc/rc.conf and XF86Config. Are the warnings at X startup normal? Also, is there such thing as a cheap Dvorak keyboard? The different angles on the keys is annoying. I have more to say but it would take forever to type it.

zenlunatic · Guru Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Posts: 312

For the sake of time I can't post too thoroughly, but I have used the dvorak keyboard off-and-on and after a while you should find it's simple to switch between dvorak and qwerty; I corrected some bad touch typing habits that I had previously practiced, such as never using the left shift key. I don't know why but I never used to use the left shift key, than I decided to force myself to use it with the right key. I think learning alternative keymaps is only healthy, and I am trying to teach myself to be ambidextrious (i know I had to spell that wrong). I now manage to cut my own hair!

shimage · n00b Joined: 18 Jul 2003 Posts: 48

Ian · l33t Joined: 28 Oct 2002 Posts: 820 Location: Newport, RI

I should switch to Dvorak, except for the small, tiny problem of me not ever getting enough time/courage to do it. I know if I had like, two weeks of nothing, I could do it no problem, but the problem is, I never look at the keyboard when I type anymore, and I'm actually pretty decent with spellings and WPM (never actually figured it out), so I'll be so amazingly frustrated when I do attempt to switch. Oh well, I guess going cold turkey would be the best, no? Now, when do I have some free time (maybe this weekend)...

If I stop posting for a few days, you know where I am

.

bazik · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:38 am Post subject:

Hmm... I gonna try out DVORAK...

I switched from the German QWERTZ to a UK QWERTY two years ago because the German layout really sucks for programming and Linux usage (you have to press SHIFT+7 to type a slash "/").

IMO thats because most programming languages where designed on QWERTY keyboards and the programmers used easy to type special characters like ";/\{}()[]".

Lemme check eBay if I find a cheap DVORAK

Enigma-Redux · n00b Joined: 09 Dec 2002 Posts: 2 Location: Bethel, ME

MrStaticVoid · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:58 pm Post subject:

Pistos · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 5:12 pm Post subject:

I happen to use the middle finger of the left hand for P, but you should follow your typing tutor program.

Schwin97 · n00b Joined: 25 Oct 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Frisco, TX

The 'p' should be the "pointer" finger on the left hand. Finger closest to the thumb...

Schwin97

orzetto · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 9:25 am Post subject:

Hi all,
I see that finally there is some interest for Dvorak... anyway, I started using dvorak a few months ago, and now I'm quite confident.

I made a .Xmodmap file that uses UTF-8 and can type all characters in ASCII, Latin-1, Latin Extended A and the Euro symbol.

Hope this may be of interest.
Cheers
-Federico
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bazik · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:31 pm Post subject:

Enigma-Redux · n00b Joined: 09 Dec 2002 Posts: 2 Location: Bethel, ME

bazik · Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 10:05 pm Post subject:

masseya · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:38 pm Post subject:

bazik · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:49 pm Post subject:

masseya · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:02 pm Post subject: